quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
As for holding the CEO's of companies like Tesla liable (let alone criminally liable)...come the F on guys. Are you kidding me? This from the same group who screams "foul!" when someone wants to sue a gun manufacturer over a shooting death? It's the same thing. Misuse of a product doesn't mean we should sue the manufacturer. If you want Tesla sued, then you have to agree to gun manufacturers being sued.

This argument makes no sense. People here are worried about deaths due to the fault of the autonomous vehicle not user error.

Self driving cars? Hah, you guys promoting the tech as inevitable forget the one main thing that can stop your utopian dream, consumer demand, if enough people say no, it's not going mainstream, and without government regulation, it's not going to be the way of the world.

Next thing you know we'll all be using the three sea shells....


Me I want my manual shift, non ac v8 lump of metal spewing magnificent tones through a set of chrome headers, I don't want some egg shaped utopian "be Well" Cocteau Coupe with self drive and rubber bumpers on all sides with auto foam deployment for my safety because someone think we need a master control system for personal transportation.

If you want a car that you don't have to drive and will go where you tell it that's here, right now, today, you don't even need a down payment or monthly payments, it's called a cab.


You got that right. See, according to Cocteau's plan, I'm the enemy. Cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech and freedom of choice. I'm the kind if guy who wants to sit in a greasy spoon and think, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecued ribs with the side order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol. I want to eat bacon, butter and buckets of cheese, okay?

I want to smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in a non-smoking section. I wanna run through the streets naked with green Jello all over my body reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly might feel the need to.

Okay, pal? I've seen the future, you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sittin' around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake singing "I'm an Oscar-Meyer Wiener".

You wanna live on top, you gotta live Cocteau's way. What he wants, when he wants, how he wants. Your other choice: come down here, maybe starve to death.

quote:

How will sensors cope with 1800 miles of winter road grime on them?

I would submit that answering this question is the easiest for the companies to answer. Of all the possible hurdles that could stop autonomous vehicles from getting here, this is not one of them.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:

As for holding the CEO's of companies like Tesla liable (let alone criminally liable)...come the F on guys. Are you kidding me? This from the same group who screams "foul!" when someone wants to sue a gun manufacturer over a shooting death? It's the same thing. Misuse of a product doesn't mean we should sue the manufacturer. If you want Tesla sued, then you have to agree to gun manufacturers being sued.

No. Not the same. These companies are rushing immature products out to market that will kill people. We're talking about negligence.

Not the same as a gun that's doing what it's designed to do albeit abused by malevolent intentions.

you obviously don't understand what the technology is. There is no point arguing this.

quote:

Originally posted by Keystoner:

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
As for holding the CEO's of companies like Tesla liable (let alone criminally liable)...come the F on guys. Are you kidding me? This from the same group who screams "foul!" when someone wants to sue a gun manufacturer over a shooting death? It's the same thing. Misuse of a product doesn't mean we should sue the manufacturer. If you want Tesla sued, then you have to agree to gun manufacturers being sued.

This argument makes no sense. People here are worried about deaths due to the fault of the autonomous vehicle not user error.

using as an autopilot without paying attention is using it improperly.

Legally, keep in mind I used to be a practicing attorney, I think the theory of liability is the exact same.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:

quote:

Originally posted by Keystoner:

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
As for holding the CEO's of companies like Tesla liable (let alone criminally liable)...come the F on guys. Are you kidding me? This from the same group who screams "foul!" when someone wants to sue a gun manufacturer over a shooting death? It's the same thing. Misuse of a product doesn't mean we should sue the manufacturer. If you want Tesla sued, then you have to agree to gun manufacturers being sued.

This argument makes no sense. People here are worried about deaths due to the fault of the autonomous vehicle not user error.

using as an autopilot without paying attention is using it improperly.

Legally, keep in mind I used to be a practicing attorney, I think the theory of liability is the exact same.

They're not talking about using it improperly. They're talking about the vehicle inevitably having a malfunction that causes a death.

quote:

Originally posted by 1s1k:
I find it even more amusing when people try and deny the obvious because the reality is a scary place for them.

I don't deny the obvious or scared by it, because much of your "obvious" is poorly designed and executed by humans. Incompetence is scary, not progress. Sure, there are some great technological advances (BTW, I own a computer solutions company). But much of the today's junk society buys, society deserves. Just because it is "cutting edge" makes it bitchen? Now that's scary.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
you obviously don't understand what the technology is. There is no point arguing this.

Perhaps it's you that doesn't accept that everyone doesn't want this technology in their lives,

Hence my reference to demolition man where the movie is around the concept that government and technology enhances all life, that people want others in control, not everyone does, and without a government mandate such as CA no more gas/diesel vehicles on the road by one legislator, it won't happen.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:

quote:

How will sensors cope with 1800 miles of winter road grime on them?

I would submit that answering this question is the easiest for the companies to answer. Of all the possible hurdles that could stop autonomous vehicles from getting here, this is not one of them.

They arent gonna work in rain or snowfall. They are not going to work when it is very hot or very cold. They are not going to work when a tin whisker grows out of a regulator and shorts out the PCB or overrides the baseband with noise. Physics is a pesky thing.

What do I know? Im just an RF engineer specializing in radar(including automotive applications) and comm systems design and construction.

You're gonna owe me two bits. These systems are a great supplement to a human operator, as a replacement, its a dangerous leap. People are gonna die and companies are gonna get sued.

Esdunbar you are awful full of yourself. Do you understand the technology? Serious question. According to Tesla, it is a combination of optics, radar, and gps. You very glibly shitcan the weakness of optics. You even say it will be the easiest problems to overcome. Optics are amazingly easy to defeat. I pointed out fogged windows. Mud, dirt, dust, snow, rain, my god the obstacles to optics are endless. A bug in the wrong spot. It will kick off the autopilot. It might be going 80 miles an hour and it will be programmed to keep going straight until user input but that ain't driverless nor is it a small matter to an already distracted driver.

I didn't read anything about IR tech in the Tesla guide so yes I think it can be easily defeated and not so easily fixed. You scoff at 1800 miles of wintry grime. You are biased by the glamor of the tech. Understandable.

This won't happen soon and it definitely won't happen without massive govt spending and mandate. Which would probably be better spent on electric recharging stations than fancy autopilots.

One mans opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:

quote:

Originally posted by Keystoner:

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
As for holding the CEO's of companies like Tesla liable (let alone criminally liable)...come the F on guys. Are you kidding me? This from the same group who screams "foul!" when someone wants to sue a gun manufacturer over a shooting death? It's the same thing. Misuse of a product doesn't mean we should sue the manufacturer. If you want Tesla sued, then you have to agree to gun manufacturers being sued.

This argument makes no sense. People here are worried about deaths due to the fault of the autonomous vehicle not user error.

using as an autopilot without paying attention is using it improperly.

Legally, keep in mind I used to be a practicing attorney, I think the theory of liability is the exact same.

If you think people using a driverless car are going to be paying attention to what's going on around them on the road, I guess you have more faith in humankind than I do. A driverless car is the perfect excuse for an imbecile to become completely distracted and inattentive. Even asleep.

Let's take it easy, please, guys. This is not a subject worthy of an argument.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
Once they get here, they will take over fast! They will also completely change car ownership.

That’s why the car companies are going to start their own version of Uber; they know car ownership will drop and they need to add a revenue stream.

Can/will the dealers program them to automatically come in for service or when they reach a certain mileage/end of loan?

The reason tech companies are dumping so much money into this catastrophe? Same reason all companies dump billions of dollars in R&D, the hope that Uncle Sugar will come along and DEMAND through legislation that we each buy 1 of these silly self driving cars, because they (the .gov) know better and us peons will bend to their will while making those tech companies even wealthier than they need to be....Where have I seen something like that before??? Obamacare and the health insurers? No that's not it... Solar panels? Nope, not there either....I must have imagined this shit.


Some folks just can't see that their wet dreams are purely fantasy. It would take ungodly amounts of money just to get the infrastructure to the point of being acceptable. Do any of those banking on automated cars in the next 10 years realize how many un-improved (shitty 1-1.5 lane gravel) roads there are in this country?

The majority of my family works heavy construction on building projects in NOVA. That includes the road system, and to get just 1 mile of asphalt done is many thousands of man hours and several million in tax revenue. Add up the total money it would take to re-do every surface of every road in the United States. You think our deficit is big now, you haven't seen what it would be.

I believe that those that believe automated cars will be the future live in or around major cities. The rest of us live in reality

They may well become common place in large metro areas
where the weather and an aggressive tax structure of rebates
and manufacturer incentives create an environment for subsidized
success.

SoCal, Arizona, Vegas, are prime locations for the technology
because the people there are looking for solutions to problems
they live with daily that they created for themselves.

Didn't realize we had so many Luddites. Shit's gonna happen whether you want it or not.

Since I don't see any brand new cars in my future I'm not going to worry about this autonomous driving stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by PD:
Didn't realize we had so many Luddites.

What the heck does this have to do with luggage?

I have waited through 7 pages of this thread just hoping that the L word would come out.

When self driving cars do become the norm I hope they have clear plastic bubbles on them like George Jettson's saucer. But I figure I will be worm food long before it happens. Cars and trucks are far more efficient and convenient than the horse and buggy, they are clearly superior and worth the expense and trouble. I am not sure just making the cars we have now drive themselves is worth the trouble, but if they flew, and flew fast, then I would see the value. Too bad I will be too dead to enjoy my self flying car.

I'm fascinated that my concerns about being killed on the freeway by a glorified lawnmower peg me as an old fuddy duddy.



Live fast, die young, you leave a good lookin' corpse, right?

quote:

Originally posted by PD:
Didn't realize we had so many Luddites. Shit's gonna happen whether you want it or not.

Sure, "shit" is gonna happen, but is this "shit" worth spending my money and time on? Maybe some "shit", but certainly not all "shit". Call me a luddite, but I don't automatically get on my knees when a new hip technology comes out. I don't care if other people kneel at the Technology Altar, I just don't happen to be one of them.