From my peronal experiene in general, some people seem to posess a very low tolerance for detail and can become moderately or extremely agitated when resolving an issue or explaining something. Examples off the top of my head would be talking to bank personnel to figure out a possible banking error, sorting out a mail order fulfillment or shipping hangup, or talking to personnal in government. Things like that in general, the minutae of daily life and normal law of averages of things occasionally going sideways.

So when dealing with these issues in person or over the phone, why do some people get so upset when trying to help out (or not help out) the people they are paid to help ? Are these instances mostly personal phycological/emotional in nature, the wrong people in the wrong jobs (ie, "x percent of people in America hate their jobs"), incompetence or immaturity etc. If this were a once in a while kind of thing I wouldn't be asking. I know for some people something is obviously wrong, but I experience this more often it seems these days, so I'm wondering if something's up unique to our current point in time. Regarding the question you may assume the person looking for help is otherwise reasonable and polite, bending over backwards if needed to get to the goal of fixing something that could otherwise be fixed with a reasonable amount of focused and persistent effort. One caveat I've noticed is I don't recall experiencing this with people in certain professions including as MDs, attorneys, or pharmcists for example to name a few. It seems I always have successful exchanges with people in those professions when trying to undersand soemthing, solving a problem, or coming up with an action plan to resolve an issue or move toward a goal.

What is your experience with this and what do you think it is ? I'm not an amateur sociologist so maybe that explains my ignorance, so I put this (to me) interesting question to the great Sigforum, who collectively has tons of smart people who deal and have interacted with metric tons of human beings in all sorts of different situations over multiple generations.

Have you noticed this or is it just me ? Inquiring minds (like mine) want to know.

Some people seem to be detail oriented while others are big-picture oriented. In my experience it's rare to run in to someone who can do both. People definitely find themselves in the wrong jobs because of this. A doctor who isn't detail oriented is a liability, and I imagine they tend to weed themselves out during medical school because a details focus is necessary to succeed. A hospital director who gets too mired in details and can't keep a big-picture perspective is likewise a liability.

And yeah, it's sometimes tough for people of one sort to understand and interact with people of the other sort, because their perspectives are different and what they think is important is different.

Interesting, good insight.

quote:

Originally posted by bobtheelf:
Some people seem to be detail oriented while others are big-picture oriented. In my experience it's rare to run in to someone who can do both. People definitely find themselves in the wrong jobs because of this. A doctor who isn't detail oriented is a liability, and I imagine they tend to weed themselves out during medical school because a details focus is necessary to succeed. A hospital director who gets too mired in details and can't keep a big-picture perspective is likewise a liability.

And yeah, it's sometimes tough for people of one sort to understand and interact with people of the other sort, because their perspectives are different and what they think is important is different.

Does make sense.

In my experience, many people who disregard the details do so because the details contradict the big picture they are trying to sell.

Are you describing con men or something different ?

To give the flip side of this, early in my career I provided technical support. The biggest issue we had was people providing extreme, extraneous detail for a simple problem that could be fixed in about 2 minutes but first we have to get the dissertation on what the person had for breakfast, their morning routine leading up to powering on the computer, every detail that has nothing to do with the current problem while 20 people are waiting on hold and your performance is judged on how many calls you take and how many issues you resolve. Bank tellers and customer service a lot times fall into this category as well - most issues are simple fixes when you boil it down there are usually only a couple of things that can go wrong and extreme detail is not necessary to fix the issue.

Now, a doctor trying to fix your gastric issue probably needs to know what you ate for breakfast and a little more detail on your overall health - same with a phramacist trying to sort out 15 prescriptions and conditions. Depending on the case an attorney has to have specific detail to see if your situation fits the parameters of the law or code.

One of the worst jobs was providing technical support for engineers who would want to keep you on the phone for 30 minutes to explain WHY the reboot fixed the problem. Dude, it's Microsoft Windows running on top of DOS and you're running CAD - expect to reboot 2 or 3 times a day!

I will say that it appears to me that attention spans in general have decreased, and I attribute that to the information age and everything being available at your fingertips immediately. It's easy to get lost in the clutter.

In my work life, details were where a better product or support was delivered to the customer. Those who didn't possess the willingness or ability to embrace the quality program frustrated me and the people I worked for.

Having 4 kids and now 9 grand kids, my detailitis is concentrated in the reloading room...I can't help these people either.

I'm detail-oriented and enjoyed it when I worked a Home Depot customer service desk and had to work with customers to troublehoot various weird problems that came up (not problems with their project).

I stopped reading after the first two spelling errors, deciding it was bullshit.

I'm too mired in my own details to give a shit. Is there a Cliff Notes?

My Mother is one who clings to the emotion of anger when she wants something her way. Took a lot of years to understand why she seems so hard core. It doesn't always work for her. That said, I get to deal with all manner of people on my weekends. Some come here intending to share their lifes disappointments. Others come very well balanced and friendly. Perhaps later this week, I will take my 4 new tires in for mount and balance. I have expectations of good service. Not to the point of being a jerk. I will determine from the start if I am comfortable with the person doing the work. No free pass. He is being paid well to do it properly. If he tarnishes my trust anywhere along the line, I will go elsewhere. Had good service there before so no reason to believe this will be different.

[/QUOTE]In my experience, many people who disregard the details do so because the details contradict the big picture they are trying to sell.[/QUOTE]

THIS!!!!

I have always struggled with math. When I had to take some math classes to complete my skilled trades apprenticeship I tried to get some help from a couple of people that were very good at math.
It didn't work out so well.
I finally figured out that because they thought it was so easy they couldn't understand why EVERYBODY didn't think it was easy.
Some people know their subject so well they think everybody should know it.

People are different. Personality factors are a part of the answer. Those who tend to be compulsive focus on the detail. The more creative and hysterical look at the big picture. Intellectual factors are also at play. Typically these factors are genetic in nature.

Everyone is different. No magic to it.

Just about everyone I've ever hired wants to move up higher and higher into management, but very few understand the simple sentence I typed above...everyone is different.

You can't manage a large group of people and be successful if you can't take what you're given (the people) and make it work.

Should a customer service person be detail oriented? Answer, depends. Do detailed people make better problem solvers? Answer, depends.

Sounds like you're a detailed person. I'm not. If you were my CS agent on a call, my guess is I'd be frustrated. You've gotta pair the tool to the task. You need a detailed CS agent, I'd rather pluck my eyeballs out than deal with one.

Once we realize we're not all the same and stop expecting people to do things the way we'd do them, life gets a lot easier.

Part of it is age. "Young" folks tend to have difficult time, concentrating, until they've been at work, for awhile. (In large part. 30-24, then to be, mentally, about 10 years behind where they should be - but the 15-19 year olds seem to be far ahead.)

And, I agree, much of it is personality. I've always had an incredibly hard time learning a physical routine - football play, dance steps, etc. I honestly think I'm the equivalent of a moron, when it comes to that. I simply cannot seem to consciously learn them, they have to be drilled until they become a subconscious reflex. (Seriously. I took about 20 hours of one-on-one professional lessons to learn to 2 step, and waltz. By the end of them, I could actually 2 step, and waltz, without being embarrassed, but I still did waltz turns when I two-stepped.)

But, I could follow details of a recipe/chemical process, quite easily.

My wife is a concrete absolute personality type. Everything for her is black and white. She is a list maker, and must agonize over every detail. We have a long running joke between us that she is allowed 46 questions before I can say enough Pam!

I on the other hand am a random abstract personality type. A big picture guy. I hate details. I'm the kid who wouldn't waste time showing my work in math class because I could jump to the answer without it. And yes, it was the correct one.

I hate freaking details. I best describe it as I would jump off a 30 story building and figure out the landing on the way down because the goal was to get to the ground.

That's a good analogy. Shows how wide the chasm can be, that it's not necessarily bad character, it just is. very interesting.

Member sdy
He’s a detail guy

https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...5/m/1930017834/p/119

Esdunbar's post reminded me what I wrote in the COVID-19 thread a few weeks back:

quote:

One of the things I have been pondering the last few days is comfort zones. I saw it with one of my longest term friends this past weekend. My friend is an extrovert and the best example of a people person that I have ever met, but I'm more of an introvert (I'm an extrovert by engineer standards). For example, he's shocked when I meet one his many, many other friends and I don't keep in contact with them periodically unless he is involved. I'm a data guy (as are most of my fellow engineers as well as other professions such as scientists and accountants) and he could care less about data. He thinks it's odd that I create spreadsheets at home, and I used to think it was odd that he only creates a spreadsheet once or twice a year.

Why am I writing all of this? It seems like the past 4 of 5 days people with different comfort zones are butting heads.

People like me aren't panicking when we comb the internet for data, post data or models that we think will interest others, thank others for posting data, and create our own spreadsheets to see if data makes sense. It's our comfort zone, but I realize it's not everyone's cup of tea.

Conversely - People aren't sticking their head in the sand hoping this goes away if they are not combing the internet for data, are not combing this thread for interesting data and models, are not posting data, etc. They bring a different perspective to the thread that I appreciate, but not all of it is my cup of tea though.

One of the benefits of aging is the ability to recognize your own comfort zone and the comfort zone of other's. Perhaps, we can strive to do that in this thread and the head butting and bickering will lessen.