Since I’ll still be at home (off work dealing with this cancer business) for the next 3 to 4 weeks at least, I thought I’d write up something born out of my 33 years in the business.

LOOK BELOW FOR LOCK GUIDE SECTIONS!

The goal of this guide is to offer information about electronic or digital locks as commonly found in the gun safe industry.

My industry experience is largely commercial, and I claim no special knowledge or insider insight other than that which has been gained working with OEMs and small to large banks and other clients since the mid eighties. As most of you know, Frank on this board (whom I don’t personally know but have emailed now and then) is another incredible resource with knowledge that is both valuable and welcome to this thread. We don’t compete. There are several others on this forum who are also well-versed in this area as SMEs, and the collection of overlapping knowledge on service, maintenance, lock selection and installation, and manipulation and forced entry will only serve to (I trust) help those on this board with lock choices and ongoing service issues.

I won’t post any specific techniques about forced entries, of which I’ve had hundreds.

Over the next few days I’ll post some basic lock information about common brands, types of locks, known issues, service concerns, and hopefully dispel some myths and misinformation. I expect other SMEs may add comments and are welcome to do so anytime they see fit.

One thing that may be helpful at this point is for board members to post any questions, observations or anecdotes you may have. I can answer some of those now as the thread develops.


LaGard Electronic Locks

AMSEC Locks

Sargent & Greenleaf Locks

NL Doomsday Dual Redundant Lock

LP Locks, LLC


Batteries and Lock Power


AVOID buying one of these!



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This message has been edited. Last edited by: striker1,

This should be very useful. Thanks.

Definitely subscribed!

Subbed as well. Thanks!

Sounds Interesting!

Some things that will come up in this thread:

- Brief overview, types and ratings of home gun safes

- Common types of electronic locks (swing-bolt, dead-bolt and slam-bolt, motorized bolt, etc.)

- Did you buy a used safe with a used lock? Have you been having problems opening your lock? GET IT INSPECTED! Also, the importance of using a SAVTA Safe/Vault tech, or someone with real safe experience.

- Should I replace my electronic lock with a mechanical lock? What about EMP? What about redundancy?

- Multi-layered approach to securing firearms. Safe placement, alarm and video coverage, location, anchoring, visibility, accessibility. What about a “dummy” safe? What about hidden compartments in lieu of or to supplement a home safe?

Interested.

Striker1 an observation/question from my use.

I have a S&G dial combination lock on my safe. I find that when I rotate my combo and seemingly properly land on the right digits it is hit or miss if the final stop hits and allows the safe handle to spin and open....

By all my beliefs I have properly landed on the digits but it is not always opening. It may take me 3-5 times of this before it unlocks.

Other times performing the same process the lock will open the first time.

Is this a sign that I may have a lock issue?

Thanks for your wise council!
Hope you get well more importantly.

HK Ag

quote:

Originally posted by HK Ag:
Striker1 an observation/question from my use.

I have a S&G dial combination lock on my safe. I find that when I rotate my combo and seemingly properly land on the right digits it is hit or miss if the final stop hits and allows the safe handle to spin and open....

By all my beliefs I have properly landed on the digits but it is not always opening. It may take me 3-5 times of this before it unlocks.

Other times performing the same process the lock will open the first time.

Is this a sign that I may have a lock issue?

Thanks for your wise council!
Hope you get well more importantly.

HK Ag

The easiest thing to do is to have the combination reset. You can set it to the same number. It is something you can do on your own, but best to have a tech come in and inspect the lock and linkage too. Various things can cause this, including buildup in the lock, dry factory lube (***NEVER LUBE ANY COMBINATION LOCK*** other than factory points), stuck flies, slipped wheel, and a few other things.

One thing very important about choosing a combination for a mechanical lock. You MUST avoid the “no go” or forbidden zone on the last number. Rule of thumb, no number higher than 90 and lower than 25. You can adjust this IF YOU KNOW the specifics on your mechanical lock, drop in point, whether it’s MR or other than Group 2, and other factors.

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:
Definitely subscribed!

If you have a digital safe from Granite Security, order the backup key.

That way when the keypad on your ten-year old safe goes kaput, and Granite tells you replacement keypads are no longer being made, you still have a way in other than linear shaped charge, oxygen lance, or Hurst tool.

Not electronic, but I still use a Simplex lock for one of my smaller safes. That thing has been solid and no batteries for a quarter century. I've done no maintenance on it. Only changed the combo once and can't quite recall how to do it --- I'd have to google it

But these are considered not too secure these days since it only takes a few hours to run through all combinations and open it.

That said, I do like this thread. Good stuff.

Looking forward to your knowledge

Thanks

When I bought my first safe, I had it made by Smith Security Safes and Vaults.

I asked him who made the best dial lock and he told me that I really should get a digital one as in his opinion they last longer??
I did, he put an LG on it.
That had to be 13 years ago and no problems so far.
He said most of the mechanical locks have plastic parts inside that wear out.
What is your opinion??

LaGard Electronic Locks

LaGard (now owned by KABA Brands) was founded in the 1970s by Klaus Gartner and others. Klaus was a contemporary of Nick Miller who ran Sargent and Greenleaf at the time. Both men are considered giants in the lock security industry.

Klaus designed some of the first viable electronic locks in the industry. Klaus is now involved with NL Lock Group.

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On today’s home gun safes you will often find a LaGard electronic lock. There are three common varieties.

- swing bolt (internal solenoid releases upon correct code, hinged pivot bolt is rotated out of the way by the bolt work and handle. Locks when the handle is turned back, the spring assist pivot returns to the locked position)

- dead bolt (internal solenoid releases upon correct code, but a knob or the entry device itself is rotated manually about 90 degrees, rotating a drive shaft in the lock. Must be rotated back to closed position to lock)

- motorized dead bolt (internal worm gear or similar motor draws back the dead bolt upon correct code, after a few seconds the motor reversed and drives the dead bolt to a locked position. When the handle is turned, the spring loaded dead bolt snaps shut. A variation of this bolt type is the slam bolt, which is more common on a small safe with no additional boltwork)

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You will find several types of entry devices (“keypads”), but the lock will almost always be one of the above types. There are redundant locks with built-in mechanical override and a version with a piggyback mechanical override as well.

Of the three types, the manual dead bolt needs the most care. The entry device cable runs through the door and is subject to flexing and breakage. This cable should be inspected and replaced periodically.

Motorized dead bolts can be problematic due to the motor binding.

Any device with a solenoid release can see issues with the solenoid pin peening.

All locks of this type should be periodically inspected for corrosion, worn or broken battery cables, mechanical problems, and worn entry device cables and connections.

Batteries should be replaced periodically and should be Duracell or Energizer.

I would personally not have a LaGard lock older than about 8-10 years old, particularly a motorized bolt. Solenoids, if inspected and replaced, can extend the life of the lock, but there is no guarantee you won’t experience a catastrophic failure of the internal circuit board.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: striker1,

Thanks, not sure what I have, but the safe guy who sold it to me does.

quote:

Originally posted by Aquabird:
When I bought my first safe, I had it made by Smith Security Safes and Vaults.

I asked him who made the best dial lock and he told me that I really should get a digital one as in his opinion they last longer??
I did, he put an LG on it.
That had to be 13 years ago and no problems so far.
He said most of the mechanical locks have plastic parts inside that wear out.
What is your opinion??

LG (LaGard) makes good locks. See my post a couple above this one.

Most good mechanical locks DO NOT have plastic internal parts that wear out. A properly installed Sargent & Greenleaf 6730 (brass internals) or 6740 (metal internals) will last decades if properly serviced.

Plastic? Your guy may have been referring to certain industry locks by Mosler and Diebold that featured Delrin wheels, designed to be resistant to X-ray. These were gov spec for GSA and are not commonly used or even available, since GSA spec has changed many times over the years.

Have your LG lock inspected soon. “I’ve never had a problem until now” is usually what I hear just before I get signed off and explain to the customer I’m about to begin forced entry.

I have an older Amsec safe with an S&G electronic motorized deadbolt. It has always performed reliably but folks say it will fail one day.

Should I replace it with a dial??

quote:

Originally posted by Bluecobra:
I have an older Amsec safe with an S&G electronic motorized deadbolt. It has always performed reliably but folks say it will fail one day.

Early S&G motorized deadbolts will fail eventually.

quote:

Should I replace it with a dial??

You can upgrade to a S&G Titan (I have one on a small pistol safe), or change to a mechanical. It’s preference.

quote:

Originally posted by striker1:

You can upgrade to a S&G Titan (I have one on a small pistol safe), or change to a mechanical. It’s preference.

Is the replacement something easily replaced by me? It looks relatively easy, but then, so do a lot of things at first glance... Thanks much for your input!

quote:

Originally posted by Bluecobra:

quote:

Originally posted by striker1:

You can upgrade to a S&G Titan (I have one on a small pistol safe), or change to a mechanical. It’s preference.

Is the replacement something easily replaced by me? It looks relatively easy, but then, so do a lot of things at first glance... Thanks much for your input!

I would suggest a SAVTA affiliated tech install the lock. You get a warranty and peace of mind.