Back some years ago, I was looking for a 2008 Subaru after the 2009's were out.

There was only one dealer (dealer A) within 600 miles that had one that I could live with. Went to the dealer, did the usual test drive, talked numbers and walked away with nothing since we were too far apart on price.

Fast forward a couple of weeks (getting closer to the end of the month) and I'm back at the dealer to get my number and my trade value after they agreed.

In the end, they tried to shaft me on both the trade value and the sale price while holding my trade hostage with the old "not sure where the keys are" stall bit. Some polite but loud words about what I thought about that and the whole situation in general from me directed towards the relevant sales staff within earshot of all the other customers in the small dealer I was at got me my keys and trade vehicle back in the service department and we were on our way.

Subsequent to that, another dealer (dealer B) called and said they could get me what I wanted for my price and to come by the following day after work and we could sign the paperwork. I knew that there was no other car beyond the one I'd driven at the original dealership, but they said they could get me what I wanted "no issues".

Drove the 30 miles in rush hour to the dealership after work and the sales manager tells me, "I know we told you we could 100% get you what you wanted but the dealer (dealer A) that has it on the lot won't turn it loose because they still think they can sell it to you".

In the end after some one sided conversation with the sales manager, magically they got the car the following day and I got my price, my trade value and it only cost me one extra trip. All in all, a needless PITA.

I HATE buying cars.

I remember trying to make an offer on a car for my wife once only to be told "we don't negotiate, the sticker price is our price". Walked right out of there and had the same model car purchased at the same make dealer long before the salesman that "didn't negotiate price" stopped calling.

A year or so ago, I posted a thread asking if car dealerships were necessary present day instead of just buying a new car like you buy everything else. Most stated that they absolutely were necessary.

I don’t agree because of stories like this one.

Car salespeople are scumbags, in my experience. Even with OTD price in written documentation for said car as equipped, they still tried to sneak in extra bogus charges for stuff that are already on the car. These sons of bitches don’t realize that I don’t need their car. The “Let me talk to my manager“ tactic is as old as dirt itself.

Mike Abt was the owner of Abt BMW, the first BMW motorcycle dealer in Chicago. In 1979, I walked in and saw a very slightly used 1978 R100RS. the so-called "Belgian Police Model" that had just a bit more hp than the standard R100RS, due to 40mm exhaust valves instead of 38mm.

I loved the red color and wanted the bike. Mike offered it for a price that was on the high side. I did not reply, I just opened my checkbook and wrote a check for what I was willing to pay, check completely filled out, but I did not sign it.

I then made a verbal offer for that amount, which he refused. I handed him the check, telling him that was my offer for an out-the-door price, all taxes and fees included, all he had to do was call me and I would come back and sign the check, if I had not bought something different from another dealer.

He said that he could not do it for that price, so I left the store. I did not get fifty feet along the sidewalk when he caught up with me and accepted my offer.

^^^ Yup, they need you. You don’t need them.

Houston is a bit of an anomaly. We're a port city and tens of thousands of imported cars come in through the Port of Houston. Generally, Houston stealerships charge more for the same vehicle than Dallas despite the additional logistics via semis/trains to move the vehicle from Houston to Dallas.

IME, Houston area Subaru stealerships (one auto group but different name on the buildings has the entire market) are the worst:

when I looked at a WRX before COVID, multiple stealerships were so douchey that I vowed to never again set foot in another Houston area Subaru stealership. I've kept my promise.

the prices were so overpriced that my buddy bought his daughter a Subaru in Dallas, bought a 1-way airline ticket to Dallas, took an Uber to the dealership, and drove the vehicle back to Houston. He sold her old Subaru to a national used car chain and received substantially more than the Subaru stealership offered too. Between both actions, he pocketed thousands in savings.

I hate the process of big-ticket purchases. I really hate buying a new vehicle at a dealership. It is exhausting but I always end up getting what I consider a fair deal. I do my research just as you obviously did as well and know the fair-deal price. Many times I have had to go to 3-4 dealerships until I got the right price. So hopefully you have that availability.

I enjoy the process because the salesmen pukes think they are hot shit salesmen that can always “win.” Few things in life feel as good as turning the tables on them.

You did the right thing, you walked away. Let them rot for a while. Trust me, they’ll call you back. As said above, they need a sale, you don’t. You hold all the cards. In TX the Honda and Toyota stealers are just that. Especially Honda. The stealers will add pinstripes, wheel locks, lo jack, tint, and whatever other bullshit they can create.

Last car I bought was earlier this year. One phone call to a no bullshit stealer. I had it delivered to my front door on a trailer, in perfect condition. You can buy from anywhere in the US mainland.

I buy cars using email and the phone. I don’t step into the dealership until I have an invoice. If they won’t deal that way I pass them by.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
^^^ Yup, they need you. You don’t need them.

I've heard that story as well. My boss from a previous job said he went to the dealer to buy a specific car for an exact price he was willing to pay, was rejected, and then simply turned around, walked out the door, left in his car, and in his rear view mirror, the salesman was running down the sidewalk waving his arms to flag him down to accept his offer. He was an experimental clinical psychologist, so maybe he had a better understanding of basic human nature at it's lowest common denominator, but this story in all of its forms comes up regularly, in this thread as well.

If I don't start getting results, maybe I will take a short break, and start over just like that. Walk in, say here's the price I will gladly pay for one of your ------- cars, here's my number, but don't call me if you will not turn the car over for that exact amount. We these scumbags, it's like dealing with a hostile, sometimes you just gotta simplify things enough so the most stupid and disgustingly amoral creature can understand your offer in no uncertain terms. Maybe we could call it the nuclear option.

Maybe this tactic combined with sigspecops' above suggestion, only via phone and email. I suppose having all the criticals in email could be helpful as well. But with shitbags for salesmen I'm sure even that wouldn't always suffice.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
My Dad used to just LOVE to Nickle and Dime Car dealers. He once spent 4 hours in a dealership getting the best price in the area on a Mustang II for my stepsister. They kept throwing offers at him and he just sat there and kept repeating the exact same offer. At the end they just gave up and sold the car to him for 50 dollars over invoice. Dad had was a real "networker" and knew exactly what that car would invoice for. The reason he enjoyed the process so much because he knew darned well that Invoice was a bit of a lie and he wanted to be compensated for all of the warranty repairs that went along with purchasing a new car in the 60's, 70's, and 80's.

Always shoot for under invoice. Invoice is not a good deal. Dealers have baked in profit hold back, showroom/advertising assistance, rate mark up, etc…

Most people don’t know that if you don’t take the incentivized rate from the manufacturer and let the dealership secure your financing they are making money on your loan. They are legally allowed to mark up your loan up to 2.5% so that 6% APR might actually be closer to 3.5%. Always ask to see the loan but rate.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
A year or so ago, I posted a thread asking if car dealerships were necessary present day instead of just buying a new car like you buy everything else. Most stated that they absolutely were necessary.

I don’t agree because of stories like this one.

Tesla proved that direct to consumer sales is possible and more efficient

I believe it was Mr. V-Tail who told the story of a motorcycle purchase. He left a check on the sales guy’s desk, written for the amount he was ready to pay, but unsigned — essentially saying, “I’ll sign it when you’re ready to make this deal.”

Believe it or not, just carrying a folder with some papers stuffed in it can result in a much different attitude from some salesman. It gives the illusion that you have been doing some homework and may even have other offers already.

I'll second the opinions here on going thru the internet sales manager.

Back in the winter of 2019 I was looking for a new truck. Something smaller than my Ford F250. I settled on the Chevy Colorado and it had a long list of must haves. A certain color in the LT line up and be in the Red Line Addition with the G80 Locker and the V6 3.8 with the trailer towing package, Navigation, 5 foot bed and a Crew Cab.

Yeah, that was a challenge I soon found out. In the whole state of Missouri I was able to find only one available and it was up in St. Louis. I called them and asked for the Internet Sales person who turned out to be a very knowledgeable and helpful lady. She told me they got the truck about a week earlier but it had been snowing off and on for the last week so she had not even seen it yet. I asked if she could check the truck out and then call me back with their absolute best, no bull shit price. She laughed and said.."I'm putting my coat and boots on as we speak".

She called me back about a couple of hours later and told me the truck had every single thing I was looking for with only 4 miles on the clock. The sticker showed MSRP at $44,000. They would sell it to me with a $4000 dealer discount and another thousand for my military discount all with 2.9 % financing. The catch was I had to purchase it by the end of the next day. I told her we would be up there the next morning.


When we got there we found she had pulled it into the service bay and had it completely detailed. It was gorgeous. Heck, she had all the paperwork done and we were out of there in less than two hours. This was Jim Butler Chevrolet...if anybody cares.

quote:

Originally posted by vthoky:

I believe it was Mr. V-Tail who told the story of a motorcycle purchase. He left a check on the sales guy’s desk, written for the amount he was ready to pay, but unsigned — essentially saying, “I’ll sign it when you’re ready to make this deal.”

Yes sir, I did that at Abt BMW in Chicago, in 1979. It was this model:

I actually enjoy buying cars, and especially slicing and dicing the sales pukes in a way they often don't know they're being played. I've purchased a new Ram truck and a new Audi in 2026, and plan on getting Mrs a new ride sometime before year end.
I've actually bought 6 cars this year alone, as I'm pretty good at it...I go along with friends, especially women, to assist them in car shopping. Well, not actually shopping, I have zero interest in that part - AFTER they know what they want they call and almost always walk out at the end of what can be a long day with them in their new car. For sport, I guess.

I’m afraid for the next vehicle purchase I’ll have to enter the lions den. Working 47 years in auto dealerships and 22 in motorcycle dealerships I was subject to “House Deals” that didn’t go through a salesperson. Fixed dollar amount over invoice less manufacturer rebates, etc.

Even that started to go away in the last few years I was in dealerships. Slowly we became considered a captive market and woe to the employee that went outside and purchased from another dealership.

But it makes you wonder as you are called “a valuable team member” as you are told and you get a quote from a competing dealer for the same vehicle several hundred dollars lower……

I haven't sat down in a car dealership to do a deal in 25+ years.

I will do a test drive of the vehicle I want, but explain to the salesman I am not ready to do a deal yet that I am probably still a few weeks away from a final decision.

If I like the test drive, I will call back the next day and ask for their best "out the door" price.


One time, I was still held up by their "finance manager" after signing the deal. To date, I am still not sure why I had to meet with him. We sat in his office, he asked me questions like what I did for a living, etc. just stupid stuff. I am sitting there totally puzzled. I am thinking to myself, does he think I am drug dealer paying with illicit funds? Is he lonely and just trying make new friends? WTH is going on?

I finally said that if he needed to wait for my check to clear, I could come back in a day or so to pick up the car (The car was for my son). Or if he wanted to talk to my banker to be sure the check was good (local bank, local check), that I was also fine with that. He said neither was necessary. So we wasted a couple or more minutes and then I said I am leaving, and I need my paperwork. So he finally relented.

It was a strange encounter. I later learned that dealerships have begun to prefer to finance deals, allowing them to make a little more profit. The only thing I can come up with on this encounter was the possibility that the GM or owner pushed the finance manager to meet with people to try to encourage financing the purchase. And maybe, by sitting down with me in his office, he was doing as instructed, at least in appearance. Be never tried to get me to finance the car, at least that I recall.


Automobile dealerhips have good people, but the industry is also chocked full of shady operators too. It's competitive, especially when there are multiple dealerships within a decent radius.


.

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:
find a dealership that is more straightforward with their customers

They are out there. Hopefully you have one in your area that has what you're looking for.