I spent some time with research followed by visiting various Honda auto dealerships for a specific new vehicle. One dealership in particular, a popular high volume dealer, got my goad.

After a good meeting with the salesperson, he brought his sales manager to the table to talk price. Since I had an idea of what that model might go for in my area and that it was not in high demand, I opened with the lower end of that narrow range. After going around in circles I said thanks anyway, I'll just do more shopping around. That triggered him to start offering me a better deal, till he reached the point that I had learned in advance would be good deal in my local market.

I told him thanks, I'll contact you in a couple hours either way to make sure I have all my ends tied up before pulling the trigger.

I called back a while later and asked my salesman to arrange for a test drive, and if the test drive went as expected, we could expect to start the purchase paperwork, with what I understand to be a "buyers order" my bank said is what I need to bring back to them to transact the purchase resulting in a bill of sale, Title to the bank, State sales tax, and Tags and registration.

When I arrived the vehicle was already pulled up with the salesman ready to start the test drive. As I was getting into the car (literally) the Sales Manager walked up, and I repeated to him what I said to the Salesman that if the test drive went as expected we could be good to start the purchase paperwork based on the offer he gave me 3 hours earlier. At this point he said he could not give me the price he quoted me earlier. I asked him why, he said because he could "never get that approved", so I asked him why since he told me earlier that he represented that as an offer as the sales manager. He ignored my direct question and answered with something that was incomprehensible to me using all sorts of technical car dealership lingo, and to me basically sounded like something between a snow job and total BS.

During this short exchange I learned this fellow was not the real Sales Manger for the dealership, but another guy in the middle, as best I could figure existed for the purpose of lengthening the chain of negotiation between the Salesman and his customer, designed to wear buyers down until they capitulate in psychological exhaustion. Since I don't have the knowledge or auto sales knowledge chops to deal with snakes like that, I just politely left.

I thanked my salesman personally for his help while the sales manger was standing there, since I could tell the salesman wasn't happy with what just happened.

The next day I get two voicemails from them, one from the shady sales guy middleman, and another from someone who I never met that dealership, but nothing in those messages sounded like a deal could be made without stepping back into the octagon.

I did receive a separate text from the Salesman from his personal cell phone apologizing for what happened and he was going to "hammer" his chain of command to secure a better deal. I just replied Thanks and haven't heard from them since.

After researching more about all the details and complications about how auto dealerships actually make money, from the the factory, factory discounts, "holdbacks", volume incentives, all the crap add-ons and smoke and mirror, I need to take another approach for finding this vehicle for a fair and reasonable price for my area.

I'm sure some dealerships are less snaky than others, even though they still have to use the same tools and complications to make a profit. I learned about car buying services that will do all this negotiating stuff on your behalf, but those appear to be for higher end cars, not daily drivers in normal price ranges.

It's too bad these profit structures are so complicated in the auto retail business, but it's understandable, since I understand the raw gross margins aren't that high for regular drivers compared to luxury cars, and the overhead and carrying costs can be hard to manage depending on the season and economy etc.

I'm sure there are better and worse dealerships, based on the owners, since I know from working in large organizations my whole life that shit generally speaking rolls downhill.

I know lots of you guys have better chops in this area, but whatever I do going forward I will do my best to find a dealership that is more straightforward with their customers to whatever degree that is possible.

If you have any thoughts about managing my strategy going forward please share.

quote:

If you have any thoughts about managing my strategy going forward please share.

If I were in the market for a new vehicle, I would at least look into the Costco program.

Car dealerships are the reason I only buy a car once every 10 years. I can only handle their bull every 10 years.

Nothing new; had the same trick tried on us back in 2013 at a local Nissan dealer. Told the salesman straight up, we weren't going to purchase that night. He then proceeded to pressure us by repeatedly dropping the price to eventually a really low level. We didn't like the pressure tactics at all and told him we'd contact him the next day. We looked into that price for that year and model later that night and decided to go for it. The next day we went back to the dealership and now sat down with some other salesman. We told him the price offered to us the night before and he said they couldn't do it now. No explanation given. We got up and left and eventually bought something better and newer at a very different dealership for a very fair price...

The old "sales manager" ploy. I don't spend a lot of time negotiating with a salesman, there are sit tons of car dealers. When they want to bring the sales manager in, my response is "if you can't sell me this car, I'll go to someone who can." And I walk. The last three vehicles I bought-the first was an internet sale. They list the car and the price, you accept or decline, like buying something on Amazon. The next, I had a friend at a dealership. He sold me a car with 1500 miles on it, used, in mint condition for 300 under book. The last one, and it will be the last for a good while, the saleswoman gave me a price. I counter offered. She said, "No, we don't negotiate, it's a good price. Take it or leave it." It was a good price, I had shopped around. I took it.

I don't have time for their bullshit. There's always Carvana.

About 11 years ago USAA had a car buying service...I think it went away in 2019/2020. My last new truck, I negotiated a sale, and it was a pain in the ass. What I had working for me was I went about an hour from closing and got the deal wrapped up. Next time, I'll pay for someone to do this for me. I haven't used this service yet, but it's about $1000 to NOT deal with the dealership and their nonsense games that are old and irritating. --> https://www.delivrdto.me/

Several years ago I went to a Kia store in Orlando FL.
We decided on a price and did all the paperwork.
I drove away in my new car and left my trade-in there.

A couple days later I received a call from the sales guy asking me to come back in and sign a few more pieces of paperwork.
Sounded like an odd request, but I went on in anyway to see what's up.

I got there and this dude starts telling me this story about how they're unable to sell me the car at the price agreed... and I needed to sign a new contract for a higher price.
I ended up with him, his boss, and his bosses boss around me trying to pressure me into signing this new paper.
I got mad.
I got real mad.
I decided I did not want to have to deal with these guys ever again (including for warranty work..etc) so I told them "you either honor the first deal - or you take the car back and give me my trade-in back."
no no... we can't do that.. you have to sign the new paper..
I refused and doubled down on my offer. Honor the deal or trade it all back.

They eventually got real mad, grabbed the keys off the table and stormed off saying "we'll get your old car around front for you eventually!"
I waited about 10 minutes - no car.
So I began ambushing customers coming in the front door and telling them my story.
They all left one after another.
Sales guy comes over and says I can't do that and that they're gonna call the cops on me.
I laughed and said please do.
I'm gonna keep on doing this until I have a car here I can drive away in.
One more set of customers chased off by me.. and my car was there.


Some years after that I was at the Harley dealership in Sanford FL.
I wanted a new bike - went back and forth with the sales guy for a bit and we agreed on deal.
I trade in my existing bike and I'd have monthly payments of whatever amount.
I came back a day or two later to actually do the paperwork and pick up the new bike.
We sit down and I notice that the paperwork is to LEASE the new bike instead of buy.
I tell the guy no - absolutely not - I'm here to buy.
He tells me the only way they're doing this deal is to lease.
I just got up and left.
Received multiple phone calls over the next week or so from the guys boss asking me to come back and they'd make it right.
I just ignored them all.

Car salesmen are the least trusted and respected profession, yes less so than prostitutes and contractors!

For the last 15 years or so I've only bought via internet after deciding exactly what car I want. They almost always try to get me to come in to "go over what deal we can make", "speak with our sales manager", or "look over your trade". I just say the only way I'll come in is to bring my check that's already made out and pick up the car. I do this when trading by emailing them my VIN and a dozen or more high quality images and they can look up the carfax. I represent my car accurately being sure to show any blemish. If we agree on the OTD price difference I tell them I'll come in with my trade and check already made out to do the swap. This seems to work best for me as it keeps me out of playing "the salesman sales manager game" plus saves a lot of time and driving when shopping multiple dealerships over a wide area.

My Dad used to just LOVE to Nickle and Dime Car dealers. He once spent 4 hours in a dealership getting the best price in the area on a Mustang II for my stepsister. They kept throwing offers at him and he just sat there and kept repeating the exact same offer. At the end they just gave up and sold the car to him for 50 dollars over invoice. Dad had was a real "networker" and knew exactly what that car would invoice for. The reason he enjoyed the process so much because he knew darned well that Invoice was a bit of a lie and he wanted to be compensated for all of the warranty repairs that went along with purchasing a new car in the 60's, 70's, and 80's.

I have bought a few new vehicles using the internet manager and negotiated price over e-mail. I hate having to play the car dealer games.

Dealers are annoying. I am looking for a used truck, preferably a Chevy with the 8.1, or the Dodge/Ford V10. I found one on Autotrader at a dealer but it did not state which it was or where it was located. I inquired via Autotrader and got a response from a dealer in Florida. I tried calling the sales person that e-mailed me and figured out while waiting on hold that they sold that truck. I hung up before talking with her. After e-mails and calls from 4 different people, their manager e-mailed and asked how he could help. I said to tell all his employees to stop calling and e-mailing, they did not have the vehicle I want and I was in Texas anyway. They finally stopped calling.

I have to tell you about my very pleasant experience with a Ford dealer in Tryon, NC.

My wife and I decided to buy a new Ford Escape. We went to the dealership, having seen a Silver/gold model in the lot.

We told the salesman about our interest - he said OK, handed us the keys and said we could take a test drive if we wanted.

Being familiar with the type, didn’t need to drive it… it had everything we wanted! We returned to the gentleman, an older fellow, expecting a typical dealer run-around…NOT!

He took about 5 minutes, handed us a sales contract at a price below our expectations!
We quickly agreed, expecting to be turned over to the next person who would try to upscale price with add-ons… nope! That was it!

Paid for the car, received the temp plate and went home.

Sure enough, the next day -“Please come back to the dealership!”

Now, a little concerned, went back. He met us and explained that Ford had sent the dealership a discount deal that he hadn’t seen and gave us a rebate check for $1,000.00!!!

FYI, it is a 2014 model that we still own.

So… if you’re anyplace close to Tryon, you might consider checking with Stott’s. It has been 12 years because we returned to Florida a few months later and would guess personnel have changed, but certainly worth a try.

Tillman

I had success getting the Costco price and then asking what their best price under Costco was? Even if it’s not a lot, Costco pricing is realistic so beating Costco is a good deal.

quote:

Originally posted by creslin:
Several years ago I went to a Kia store in Orlando FL.
We decided on a price and did all the paperwork.
I drove away in my new car and left my trade-in there.

A couple days later I received a call from the sales guy asking me to come back in and sign a few more pieces of paperwork.
Sounded like an odd request, but I went on in anyway to see what's up.

I got there and this dude starts telling me this story about how they're unable to sell me the car at the price agreed... and I needed to sign a new contract for a higher price.
I ended up with him, his boss, and his bosses boss around me trying to pressure me into signing this new paper.
I got mad.
I got real mad.
I decided I did not want to have to deal with these guys ever again (including for warranty work..etc) so I told them "you either honor the first deal - or you take the car back and give me my trade-in back."
no no... we can't do that.. you have to sign the new paper..
I refused and doubled down on my offer. Honor the deal or trade it all back.

They eventually got real mad, grabbed the keys off the table and stormed off saying "we'll get your old car around front for you eventually!"
I waited about 10 minutes - no car.
So I began ambushing customers coming in the front door and telling them my story.
They all left one after another.
Sales guy comes over and says I can't do that and that they're gonna call the cops on me.
I laughed and said please do.
I'm gonna keep on doing this until I have a car here I can drive away in.
One more set of customers chased off by me.. and my car was there.

Usually, this story goes something like they call you and say there’s a problem with the paperwork you go back in and they’ve changed the interest rate. They’ve changed the price and other terms and they need you to sign a new contract. You tell them to shove the deal up their ass and bring back your trade-in and they say oh we already sold your trade-in so you have to sign this now. Happens all the time. Yo-yo financing.

I absolutely refuse to negotiate with these vermin. I do my research I come up with the price for the model and amenities that I want. I walk in the door and say this is what I will pay take it or leave it. If they take it, I buy the car. If they say no I walk out. End of story.

I have not used this service, but I am considering them for a future car. As I get closer to buying, I'll do more research, but seems like an interesting model. I really don't want to deal with the dealerships, but also want to get a better deal than the one-price models.

https://www.delivrdto.me/about-us

I never visit a dealership to negotiate. Prior visits to inspect, drive and check inventory levels, yes. 95% of my legwork is through multiple dealers within 250miles working only with their internet salespeople. I've already done my research on what price range that car should command. Generally I'll say to each up front that I'm committed to buying a particular car, the choice is up to you whether it's with your store. I have no problem saying no or moving my process to another dealer. If I've gotten to a price point that I'm comfortable with, always they'll ask whether cash or finance...I prefer cash but always leave the finance route open as a tool because often that may be the only margin available to the dealer through the manufacturers finance arm. If we jointly agree on the finance route, I'll ask for some throw ins. I always confirm the absence of any early prepayment penalty, which allows me to avoid interest and allows the dealer his finance spiff, because most dealerships make their profits in the service dept. Yes, it's a bit cumbersome, and I may not be wringing every dollar out of the deal, but I've avoided the emotional bs and the annoyance of a ridiculous car buying system.

I am in the process of buying a Toyota Grand Highlander Hybrid Max. I did my research initially decided upon contacting Costco. I received a call from the Sales Weasel and told him what I wanted and the price I wanted to reach. I received a quote of around $500 less than MSRP on a $60,000 car.. I told him that was entirely inadequate and I was going to look around at other dealerships. He assured me I would not find anything better than the price he was offering. Over the next 3 weeks I got about 7 calls from him but never offering me a better price. It was very apparent the Costco approved Toyota dealership was not going to lower their price.

The reply above me mentioned Delivrd. I decided upon using their service. They say they are not a discount service but a service to save you time and aggravation of dealing with the car dealers. They make sure they will negotiate the best deal they can but make no promises. After paying their $1000 fee up front I was contacted. They made sure to let me know that part of their job was to manage client expectations in the overall cost of the car and the amount of any potential discount that they may negotiate. They told me that the car I wanted was not common and that the dealers, like with some highly desirable cars, did not want to negotiate. They told me the amount of discounts they were able to negotiate for the same car for other clients. That savings was noticeably better than the Costco deal even with the fee they charged.

After I was assigned a negotiator, he very shortly came back to me with three offers. One of them was the color combination I wanted. The MSRP was higher than I wanted due to the Factory and the Port adding on extra things I did not desire but the $4000 off MSRP (6.47% below MSRP) more than made up for it. This amount off was 800 to 1500 more than what they quoted as having obtained for other clients. They highly recommended that I take that offer as it was unusual to get that much off from a dealer due to the popularity of the vehicle. I will have to wait about three weeks for delivery.

The Delivrd process is highly computerized but there is always a live person to answer the phone and texts. They were always extremely prompt in responses.

Yesterday I got a phone call from the Costco Sales Weasel. I told him that I had purchased a vehicle and he demanded to know what I paid. He told me that was not possible and hung up on me.

Car dealers are typically full of BS, and have been lying to customers for years. When looking for a new RAM diesel, the Costco price was $8,000 lower than list price. If the dealer will not give you a price over the telephone, most likely they will try to trick or manipulate you when you arrive in person.

I called a couple of dealers in smaller, lower income, towns a few hundred miles away. One gave me a GREAT price, well under the Costco price. I ordered the vehicle built to my specs, and there were no games played at all.

I bought from the Ram dealer in Grants Pass, OR. Will definitely go there again if I buy another truck in the future.

quote:

Originally posted by Anush:
Car dealerships are the reason I only buy a car once every 10 years. I can only handle their bull every 10 years.

This. MC dealerships aren't any better. I recently needed some warranty work done. Since its 4 hours away from me I also arranged to have them replace the two Tire Pressure Sensors. I asked up front for the price of parts and installation.
When I drop it off they tell me the installation price didn't include syncing the TPS to the bike. Thats an extra fee.
So, installation isn't installation. He had no explaination as to why he hadn't disclosed this when I asked on the phone.
They end up kind of waiving that fee (fucked me elsewhere somewhat).
I loathe the MF'ers.

I used to sell cars for Toyota at some point in my life. I hated the sales tactics.

That middle man is most likely a closer, or a second salesman. One of the things they made us do is if you can't get the customer to close a deal, you would have to turn the customer to another salesman to work on him, or if the dealership has a closer, they would step in.

I have had some bad experiences with car dealers, which I did not purchase from, some not so good experiences which finally honored their written and singed price, and some good experiences.

I bought a new truck 3 weeks ago. I had the price before visiting the dealership, $8,500 below MSRP. I was prepared to negotiate for the trade-in. They offered $2,000 more than what my minimum would have been.