CCW, not allowed at a school, obviously.

Was talking with a coworker & it came up.
Is a school, still a school, if it's not being used as a school?

We have a few that get used on Sundays for church services, and some that get used for 3rd party events (dance recitals & such).

So, is it still a school, in regard to CCW, or does the school designation hold, even if it's not being used as a school?

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
CCW, not allowed at a school, obviously.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I carry at schools all the time, from pre-school up to the university.

If that's not allowed in Texas, you need to work on changing this nonsensical prohibition. Anything else is just academic.

Disclaimer - Not a lawyer.

Per federal law...

quote:

(26)The term “school zone” means—
(A)in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or
(B)within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school.

There is no carve out that I know of at the federal level. There may be state carve-outs and exceptions.

Texas -https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.46.htm#46.03

The law does not make differentiation, afaik. Just like after hours and no school activities, it's still a school in regard to ccw.

quote:

Originally posted by steve495:
Disclaimer - Not a lawyer.

Per federal law...

quote:

(26)The term “school zone” means—
(A)in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or
(B)within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school.

There is no carve out that I know of at the federal level. There may be state carve-outs and exceptions.

Texas -https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.46.htm#46.03

The federal carve out is “unless licensed by the state.”

Until a few years ago, holders of a CA License To Carry a Concealed Handgun (LTC for short) could legally carry in CA schools. Holders of an Utah CHL (resident or nonresident) can carry in Utah school. Not long after the federal safe school zone act came out, Montana passed a great law that basically blew raspberries at the Feds. Something along the lines of whereas schools are on the main roads, whereas everyone has a firearm in their car during hunting season, whereas the Montana Constitution recognizes that Montana residents have the right to keep and bear arms, for the purposes of the federal safe school zones law, all Montana residents who can legally possess a firearm are considered licensed by the state of Montana. (Short version: Up yours feds, mind your own darned business.) Gotta love Montana!

ETA: See the text of the law at: https://www.congress.gov/bill/...enate-bill/2070/text . Pay special attention to SEC. 2.(a)(B)(ii).

The better answer is that it depends on TX Law. If TX law doesn’t say you can carry on school property under the situation you describe, then federal law would preclude it.

quote:

“unless licensed by the state.”

^^^THIS is Key! Unless state law prohibits carry, then it would/should be legal to do so if 'licensed by the state'. 'Carry' on...

I would think this is an area not directly addressed by Texas law so in my opinion it would fall on the law that it is a school. This is where discrete CCW is your friend. What someone doesn’t see or know won’t hurt them, unless they intend to do others harm. I am not advocating for you to break the law, I am just saying.

quote:

^^^THIS is Key! 'Carry' on...

I guess that depends on how you interpret licensed by the state. I’d assume it means licensed to carry in a school zone or on school grounds.

quote:

I would think this is an area not directly addressed by Texas law so in my opinion it would fall on the law that it is a school. This is where discrete CCW is your friend. What someone doesn’t see or know won’t hurt them, unless they intend to do others harm. I am not advocating for you to break the law, I am just saying.

A quick look at Texas’ page on handgunlaws.us (https://handgunlaw.us/states/texas.pdf), particularly “Places Off-Limits Even With A Permit/License” would seem to indicate that Penal Code 46.03 addresses this. It it a little more involved and references other statues than I want to research enough to offer an opinion. It is addressed though.

Federal law requires a person be licensed by the state they are in if in a school zone. Thus with my home state ccw I am not legal in any of the other 49 states to ccw in a school.

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:

quote:

^^^THIS is Key! 'Carry' on...

I guess that depends on how you interpret licensed by the state. I’d assume it means licensed to carry in a school zone or on school grounds.

quote:

I would think this is an area not directly addressed by Texas law so in my opinion it would fall on the law that it is a school. This is where discrete CCW is your friend. What someone doesn’t see or know won’t hurt them, unless they intend to do others harm. I am not advocating for you to break the law, I am just saying.

A quick look at Texas’ page on handgunlaws.us (https://handgunlaw.us/states/texas.pdf), particularly “Places Off-Limits Even With A Permit/License” would seem to indicate that Penal Code 46.03 addresses this. It it a little more involved and references other statues than I want to research enough to offer an opinion. It is addressed though.

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED.
(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, location-restricted knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted,

This does not gives hours or days of the school. A school is a school. An event out of school hours I would be sure would be considered a school sponsored event and fall under this statute.

My kid’s middle school in TX has a 30-06 & 30-07 sign in the front.
I leave the gun in the truck if I have to take him a lunch, or money or anything else during regular school hours.

When he has a band recital, I leave the gun in the truck-even if it’s after hours-because there are school students there in a school sponsored event.

When he plays for the football games-even after school hours- it’s a school sponsored event,

When he goes on field trips, I leave the gun in my truck if I’m attending or as a chaperone, because it’s a school sponsored event.

I don’t need to lose my gun rights over something super easy to avoid.

I don’t agree with it at all. But I deal with it. And follow their rules or any way that a jury could interpret it. If I don’t have my gun I can’t get hooked up for weapon on school property.

And I’m a retired cop and have had many many hours more training then Joe Citizen off the street.

Thanks gents.
It was a non-school affiliated dance company production, held at a local Jr high auditorium.
Left the P320 in the truck.

I would suspect it would depend on your state's laws with the non school functions.. such as the church stuff....

actually using a public school facility for a church sounds close to a violation of the 1st amendment to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Blume9mm:
I would suspect it would depend on your state's laws with the non school functions.. such as the church stuff....

actually using a public school facility for a church sounds close to a violation of the 1st amendment to me.

Nonsense

quote:

Originally posted by Blume9mm:

actually using a public school facility for a church sounds close to a violation of the 1st amendment to me.

Haha, what?

Blume9mm - Foot in mouth again. Lol.

This is Ohio
WHAT CONSTITUTES SCHOOL SAFETY ZONES?
What constitutes school safety zones and/or school premises? A school safety zone consists of any school, school building, school premises, school activity, or school bus; and the premises themselves is all the land and buildings that are situated on it. Those are all the prohibited places that are listed in the “duties of licensed persons” section of the Ohio Revised Code in the “all must apply” section of 2923.122, (the person is not knowingly in a place described

The only exception is if you stay in the car while you are dropping off students.

quote:

Originally posted by Blume9mm:
I would suspect it would depend on your state's laws with the non school functions.. such as the church stuff....

actually using a public school facility for a church sounds close to a violation of the 1st amendment to me.

The public school near me has had church services for several years for a church that was having problems finding a location.

The public school system near me busses private school kids to their school along w/ the public school kids.

You might ask, "why"?
Because all those families pay taxes to the public school system so the least they can do is deliver them to their school of choice. Too bad there isn't a refunding for everything above that the private kids don't use.

And beyond just using the bussing system, you would think that would be plenty of money for the public system that can't seem to get enough moneys.

And yeah, it's not separation of church and state. It's separation of the state from the church's business. -Freedom of religion. Not freedom FROM religion or any other aspects the dems try to force through.

quote:

Originally posted by StorminNormin:

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED.
(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, location-restricted knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted,

This does not gives hours or days of the school. A school is a school. An event out of school hours I would be sure would be considered a school sponsored event and fall under this statute.

It always pays to read the WHOLE statute. In this case,

Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED.
(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, location-restricted knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless:
(A) pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution; or
(B) the person possesses or goes with a concealed handgun that the person is licensed to carry under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and no other weapon to which this section applies, on the premises of an institution of higher education or private or independent institution of higher education, on any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by the institution is being conducted, or in a passenger transportation vehicle of the institution;

Clearly, (A) and (B) offer two exceptions. I am not interested enough to go research Subchapter H, Chapter 411 of the Government Code to see if it applies and is helpful, but without researching that, one doesn’t really know.

Of course the answer that keeps one safe from troubles with the government is to leave your gun at home in the safe. You maybe just fine without it. Then again you may not. If I were in the OP’s shoes I’d research the whole statute, and if I couldn’t figure it out or it was at all ambiguous, I’d consider consulting an attorney. YMMV.

IF it walks like a school and talks like a school . . . .
Yadda , yadda, yadda...