Many of you know I purchased a Toyota Sienna van with part of the funds donated by the good of heart Members here. Cannot say thank you enough. I drove the van Friday a couple miles on secondary roads and noticed, around 30 MPH a revolving/howling sound from its front end. There also is at slow turns, what sounds like a ball joint knuckling over. I told the salesman and he drove the van. Came back and said " it is from the heater and air conditioning fan and, it went away when he turned it off." I drove the van 15 miles highway at 60 MPH and the noise increased in speed while making the steering wheel buzz like a bee in my hands. I called the salesman and at his advice, brought the van back for their mechanic to test drive. His verdict was wheel bearings. They asked me to bring in the van for repair on Monday. While it is sitting parked here at the Flea Market, on Saturday I noticed the passenger side electric sliding door and, whole quarter panel have been body filled and repainted. The work is not professional looking by any standards. They had to remove the Toyota installed plastic edge protector on that side of the van to do the repaint. A recessed/dented area still remains on the door and the body filled and sanded lines do not conform to original state. As well, orange peel is evident over the whole surfaces and no clear coat applied. So, I text the salesman about the damage and repair, which is not on the printed Carfax and he did not answer. I told him via text, I want to return the van and get my money back. Silence. I then called the dealership and talked to another salesman. He asked me " you didnt see the damage yesterday ? I said no as the van had melting snow and water running off it and, I was busy dealing with its front end noise. He said he would talk to the dealerships owner about all this. Been reading a bit about nondisclosed information of damaged vehicles and that I might have a case if this mess needs to go to Court. Sorry about the no paragraphs folks as Im on my cell phone. Where do I stand on this ? I want to return the van and, were I informed of the damage and repairs, like others I viewed online, I would have walked away from this van.

Take it back, tell them your concerns, remind them they are under law to make it right. Then call the local news people about shifty car salesmen.

As Mike said, return it. Demand a full refund with no delay.

If they balk at this, ask them how much publicity they are willing to tolerate.

---

Is this an authorized Toyota dealer? If so, the regional office can probably help, if needed.

They have no requirement to accept a return if it was a used vehicle. There are no disclosure issues if it's not listed on Carfax.

Carfax is not infallible. I tell people this all the time. You need to do a thorough walkaround and have an independent mechanic inspect the vehicle.

Not trying to be negative but it happens. I wouldn't expect them to take it back. I would expect them to help you with the wheel bearings.

Man you guys know how to boost my confidence. It is my intention to be there first thing and give them the vans key. I will hang onto my receipt, Carfax and all paper work. There is no warranty on the van. I signed all the high lighted areas and took the van. I've been honest and prompt about the issues with the dealer. I am taking it back as there are exact same models available in excellent condition. Even the Honda line has used vans which would be just fine by me.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
Many states have "lemon laws."

Every lemon law I know of requires it be a brand new vehicle to qualify. Used cars are sold 'as is' unless there is an expressed warranty.

So did you buy a crappy van or did they sell you a crappy van?

I guess everyone seems to forget that all used cars came from their friends and neighbors.....of which none would ever half ass maintain their vehicle.....insert roll eyes here.

quote:

Originally posted by Scurvy:
They have no requirement to accept a return if it was a used vehicle. There are no disclosure issues if it's not listed on Carfax.

Carfax is not infallible. I tell people this all the time. You need to do a thorough walkaround and have an independent mechanic inspect the vehicle.

Not trying to be negative but it happens. I wouldn't expect them to take it back. I would expect them to help you with the wheel bearings.

Well this dealer does use Carfax as a way to inform the buyer of damages and accidents, salvage or flood. They present it to you as a selling point. This van having been damaged and repaired was not known by me but I bet the dealer knew of it.

quote:

Originally posted by chris240:
So did you buy a crappy van or did they sell you a crappy van?

I guess everyone seems to forget that all used cars came from their friends and neighbors.....of which none would ever half ass maintain their vehicle.....insert roll eyes here.

I bought what I thought was a nice condition van and the year model I could afford. As I said, I would not have made the purchase otherwise. Matters not as it is unacceptable to me and is getting returned in the morning.

quote:

" it is from the heater and air conditioning fan and, it went away when he turned it off."

I read that in the other thread and thought.. "How is THAT okay?" If he really believes that, then they should be trying to fix that!

Lemon laws DO NOT apply to used vehicles.

Basically they traded this POS van in and sold it to you. If you bought it off Craigslist or something what would the argument be then other than you clearly do not know how to buy a used car......just accept your disability and shouting consumer protection or whatever.

I would think there is a 3 day/250 no questions asked return policy or something close. Any vehicle I've ever bought from a dealer has had this type of thing included.

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:

quote:

Originally posted by Scurvy:
They have no requirement to accept a return if it was a used vehicle. There are no disclosure issues if it's not listed on Carfax.

Carfax is not infallible. I tell people this all the time. You need to do a thorough walkaround and have an independent mechanic inspect the vehicle.

Not trying to be negative but it happens. I wouldn't expect them to take it back. I would expect them to help you with the wheel bearings.

Well this dealer does use Carfax as a way to inform the buyer of damages and accidents, salvage or flood. They present it to you as a selling point. This van having been damaged and repaired was not known by me but I bet the dealer knew of it.

Doesn't matter. You have to PROVE they knew it was in an accident for there to be a disclose issue. Them being able to point to a clear Carfax pretty much assures their ability to claim ignorance.

Don't look at cars with snow and rain on them and get a prepurchase inspection. If you have to buy a car and it's gonna rain for the next week and a half, tell them you want to inspect it inside their service lane, dried off, in good light.

That's fair chris240 as I am no professional when it comes to this. Rather I expect to be treated reasonbly fair, by honest dealer because, I went there in good faith intending to by a good condition, reliable and undamaged vehicle. One would think this to be of some form of value sinse I paid a fair amount of money for the van and am sure they profited.

quote:

Originally posted by Scurvy:

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:

quote:

Originally posted by Scurvy:
They have no requirement to accept a return if it was a used vehicle. There are no disclosure issues if it's not listed on Carfax.

Carfax is not infallible. I tell people this all the time. You need to do a thorough walkaround and have an independent mechanic inspect the vehicle.

Not trying to be negative but it happens. I wouldn't expect them to take it back. I would expect them to help you with the wheel bearings.

Well this dealer does use Carfax as a way to inform the buyer of damages and accidents, salvage or flood. They present it to you as a selling point. This van having been damaged and repaired was not known by me but I bet the dealer knew of it.

Doesn't matter. You have to PROVE they knew it was in an accident for there to be a disclose issue. Them being able to point to a clear Carfax pretty much assures their ability to claim ignorance.

Don't look at cars with snow and rain on them and get a prepurchase inspection. If you have to buy a car and it's gonna rain for the next week and a half, tell them you want to inspect it inside their service lane, dried off, in good light.

I am certain they knew of the damages and repairs because the salesman on the phone asked me " did I not see the repairs on Friday when I saw the van. I told him I did not see this. He stated something about the damage could be from a kids bicycle. Highly unlikly.

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:
That's fair chris240 as I am no professional when it comes to this. Rather I expect to be treated reasonbly fair, by honest dealer because, I went there in good faith intending to by a good condition, reliable and undamaged vehicle. One would think this to be of some form of value sinse I paid a fair amount of money for the van and am sure they profited.

Have you purchased a vehicle before? There's a reason why it's one of the most maligned experiences we partake in...

Did you buy it from a large, well known franchise dealer or did you buy it from Joe Bob's used cars? If it's the former you have a decent chance but they also aren't the type of dealer who sells a car with obvious repairs done that need wheel bearings. Those usually get wholesaled out and sold to buy here/pay here type places...

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:

quote:

Originally posted by Scurvy:

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:

quote:

Originally posted by Scurvy:
They have no requirement to accept a return if it was a used vehicle. There are no disclosure issues if it's not listed on Carfax.

Carfax is not infallible. I tell people this all the time. You need to do a thorough walkaround and have an independent mechanic inspect the vehicle.

Not trying to be negative but it happens. I wouldn't expect them to take it back. I would expect them to help you with the wheel bearings.

Well this dealer does use Carfax as a way to inform the buyer of damages and accidents, salvage or flood. They present it to you as a selling point. This van having been damaged and repaired was not known by me but I bet the dealer knew of it.

Doesn't matter. You have to PROVE they knew it was in an accident for there to be a disclose issue. Them being able to point to a clear Carfax pretty much assures their ability to claim ignorance.

Don't look at cars with snow and rain on them and get a prepurchase inspection. If you have to buy a car and it's gonna rain for the next week and a half, tell them you want to inspect it inside their service lane, dried off, in good light.

I am certain they knew of the damages and repairs because the salesman on the phone asked me " did I not see the repairs on Friday when I saw the van. I told him I did not see this. He stated something about the damage could be from a kids bicycle. Highly unlikly.

I'm sorry but no one in court is going to care about how certain you are unless you have written proof.

Small dealer with 150 to 200 vehicles.

Thank you all for the great advice. I will try and return the van being tactful and polite. They may accept it. That said, if it doesnt work out, sans the bearings problem which they will fix, its a nice van. I am just finding it hard to take the body repairs. They should have told me up front.