Forget the ejection seat, how about the entire jet?

January 15, 2019, 11:01 AM

sjtill

quote:
She's parked literally across the street from my house at French Valley Airport Wings & Rotors Air Museum.

They also have a Nice UH-1B done up as a HAL-3 bird.

A few months ago a F-86 put on a pretty good show out my back yard.

I've also seen B-17's, B-24's, P-51,s F4U's, and Spitfire's going in and out.

Navyshooter, you need to give us a heads up next time there’s a show, so we San Diegans can head up there!

Meanwhile, I just found out that my co-Grandpa’s boss, in addition to running the business where my co-Grandpa works, owns 11 F-5’s that he hires out as aggressor squadrons for war games, presumably over in Nevada or Arizona. He gets them from other countries, fixes ‘em up, and rents ‘em out. Part of the deal is he gets to keep one of his own. How’s that for a “sound” investment?

January 15, 2019, 12:26 PM

navyshooter

quote:
Originally posted by sjtill:
quote:
She's parked literally across the street from my house at French Valley Airport Wings & Rotors Air Museum.

They also have a Nice UH-1B done up as a HAL-3 bird.

A few months ago a F-86 put on a pretty good show out my back yard.

I've also seen B-17's, B-24's, P-51,s F4U's, and Spitfire's going in and out.

Navyshooter, you need to give us a heads up next time there’s a show, so we San Diegans can head up there!

Meanwhile, I just found out that my co-Grandpa’s boss, in addition to running the business where my co-Grandpa works, owns 11 F-5’s that he hires out as aggressor squadrons for war games, presumably over in Nevada or Arizona. He gets them from other countries, fixes ‘em up, and rents ‘em out. Part of the deal is he gets to keep one of his own. How’s that for a “sound” investment?

I'll try. Typically I only know when something buzzes my house then its "Grab a beer and head to the back yard".

January 15, 2019, 01:18 PM

jbcummings

Can I get that Fulcrum in all black with gold trim?

January 15, 2019, 05:29 PM

aileron

Here's a few more Double Ugly's for sale :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...ue=364&v=pg8-mx4KGK8

Sorry, don't know how to embed the video

January 15, 2019, 10:36 PM

Rightwire

quote:
Originally posted by MikeinNC:
Who builds an airplane without a gun?

McDonnell Douglas

January 15, 2019, 10:47 PM

VictimNoMore

quote:
Originally posted by navyshooter:
quote:
Originally posted by VictimNoMore:
quote:
Originally posted by navyshooter:

A few months ago a F-86 put on a pretty good show out my back yard.

I've also seen B-17's, B-24's, P-51,s F4U's, and Spitfire's going in and out.

I could watch that all damn day long.

I'm also under the flight path of USMC aircraft going between Camp Pendleton and 29 Palms

Sigh. I'm under the flight path of KHTS and KHTW.
Not much goes on, but it's better than nothing.

January 15, 2019, 11:02 PM

sns3guppy

quote:
Originally posted by bob ramberg:
I would imagine the cost to fly something like that has to be in the $30K - $50,000/hr range when you add in the cost of fuel, maintenance and engine rebuilds. Anyone know how many hours between rebuilds on something like this?

A starter motor will cost far more than that. A small turboprop engine will be half a million to overhaul; the J-79 will cost substantially more than that.

A surplus motor that's theoretically serviceable today will run about three quarter of a million (and far more); an overhaul can be expected to be higher than that, and a rebuilt considerably more.

A fuel control alone may run several hundred thousand dollars.

You're right that the hourly costs will be high, for a private owner probably well north of 50,000.

Engines of this type aren't run on a time between overhauls, but on a much costlier (and necessary) continuous airworthiness program.

The cost to maintain those hot seats, alone, will be very high, let alone the rest of the aircraft. it's one thing for a large organization to maintain something like the F-4, with maintenance and training available and a taxpayer for insurance; very different for an owner to do.

Would be a cool toy though.

January 16, 2019, 01:36 AM

slosig

quote:
Originally posted by TMats:
There’s an alternative. If you’ve got an extra $4,650,000 laying around you can buy a hardly used ‘86 MiG-29 Fulcrum.

For Sale—Cheap

Check out the rate of climb and the service ceiling. I wonder if there is an error or the thing will really get to the service ceiling in less than a minute. Sounds like fun!

January 16, 2019, 01:51 AM

KMitch200

^^^^
After seeing an F15 do a max climb, it wouldn't surprise me.
Here and GONE out of sight of my binoculars in less time than it took me to type this!

January 16, 2019, 05:55 AM

V-Tail

quote:
Originally posted by rsbolo:
Ok, so I buy the jet and rebuild the engines. What certifications do I need? Who checks me out in the aircraft? Can I just fly that bad boy VFR?

I suppose I could just YouTube the instructions like that SeaTac guy did....

Certifications? You would need a Type Rating (required for jet aircraft).

Fly it VFR? Yes. A Type Rating can be issued with a VFR-only restriction. I believe that John Travolta's initial Type Rating, when he first got his Lear, was restricted to VFR only.

VFR would limit you to a maximum altitude of 17,999' and the fuel burn would be horrendous at low altitudes. But, if you can afford the maintenance, you can probably afford the fuel.

January 16, 2019, 06:15 AM

Southflorida-law

Forget the rebuilds, find a friend that works at Pratt & Whitney to give you a deal on the second generation (3rd?) engines they put in some US models and also sold to Israel!

January 16, 2019, 10:54 AM

sns3guppy

quote:
Originally posted by V-Tail:

Fly it VFR? Yes. A Type Rating can be issued with a VFR-only restriction. I believe that John Travolta's initial Type Rating, when he first got his Lear, was restricted to VFR only.

VFR would limit you to a maximum altitude of 17,999' and the fuel burn would be horrendous at low altitudes. But, if you can afford the maintenance, you can probably afford the fuel.

No type rating available for the F4. It would require a Letter of Authorization or Aircraft Authorization, which creates a special problem. Both a LoA and a type rating requires an inspector or examiner with authority on the type, and training on type. The F4 was never issued a type certificate and doesn't have a standard type rating available.

It also requires significant comparable experience.

https://registry.faa.gov/TypeRatings/

An Aircraft Authorization can be issued. The basic pilot minimums are:

http://fsims.faa.gov/wdocs/890...9/05_009_002rev1.htm

quote:
5-1580 ELIGIBILITY FOR AN AIRCRAFT AUTHORIZATION. Aircraft authorizations may be issued by either an EAE or an ASI (Operations) authorized by AFS‑830 and AFS‑610 (see the note under subparagraph 5‑1578B5). Once an experimental aircraft authorization is issued to an individual, it will be issued for an indefinite period of time without an expiration date.

NOTE: For subparagraphs A through E below, when certain circumstances exist where a candidate possesses appropriate and sufficient experience in a particular category (i.e., “powered lift” versus “airplane”) of aircraft, the EAE will coordinate with AFS‑830 and AFS‑610 for exceptions to criteria listed below for issuance of the requested pilot authorization.

A. Former Military Turbojet/Turboshaft‑Powered Aircraft. To be eligible for an authorization to act as PIC of a former military turbojet/turboshaft‑powered aircraft, an applicant must:

1) Possess at least a U.S. private pilot certificate with an appropriate category and class rating for the configuration of the aircraft;

2) Hold an instrument rating;

Indicates new/changed information.
3) Possess at least a valid U.S. third‑class medical certificate or equivalent (U.S. Military Flight Medical or U.S. driver’s license in accordance with the FAA BasicMed process (pilots using BasicMed may not exceed 250 knots indicated airspeed (KIAS)));

Indicates new/changed information.
4) Have logged a minimum of 500 hours of pilot flight time in the aircraft category and have completed the U.S. armed services qualification checkout described in this section; or have logged a minimum of 1,000 hours pilot flight time, including 500 hours as PIC in the aircraft category, and have completed the training requirements of this section; and

5) If the aircraft is capable of supersonic flight, have a minimum of 250 hours of pilot flight time as PIC of a fixed‑wing turbojet‑powered aircraft, in a Group V, VI, or VII aircraft (see Figure 5‑173), or present proof of completion of a U.S. military qualification in a supersonic turbojet‑powered aircraft.

The F4 is a Group IX Experimental Vintage aircraft category airplane with an experimental designation of DC-F4, with no type designation available or issued.

The Collings Foundation offers "flight training" in the F4 and A4, and even a replica ME262 (type rating available at $3,500/hr for training). The hard part for a private purchaser will be having adequate comparable experience to qualify for an authorization in the first place, so 99% of what the Collings Foundation does is joyrides that are cited as "flight training" to skirt the regulation and to account for the minimum training for the seat, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...YZc&feature=youtu.be

A 40 minute ride in the F4 will be $15,000.

https://www.collingsfoundation...t-training-programs/