quote:

Procell.

They're made by Duracell, but are not garden variety regular retail stuff

It is my understanding that they are the same as the regular batteries but packaged for bulk sale instead of retail.

Same battery, different label, not available at Walmart.

I asked a lock manufacturer this question when their locks started showing up with the Procells.

I've never had a NiMH battery leak, so I decided to look into it. Apparently, they're mostly dry inside so leaks don't really occur:

http://www.candlepowerforums.c...e-Alkaline-batteries

The Tenergy LSD batteries I linked to earlier had pretty good reviews. Usually the battery reviews will be rife with people complaining about bad batteries or low capacity if that were the case.

For chargers, if you already didn't have an intelligent charger that works with Li-Ion batteries (Rechargeable CR123, 18650, etc) then I would spend the extra money and get something like this AccuPower that handles AA through D, and all the 3.7 volt lithium batteries up to 26650 size (26mm diameter, 650mm length). $54.

https://www.amazon.com/AccuPow...0_QL70_&dpSrc=detail

Otherwise, I think this EBL is the cheapest NiMH charger I can find that fits D cells and has some of the (in my opinion, necessary) "smart" charge functions--switches to trickle charge as the battery nears capacity, has a discharge mode that discharges the battery before recharging it, and a safety timer for overcharge protection. $19.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XXFDHM6?psc=1

Oh, and get thee some Eneloop AA and AAA batteries if you don't already have them. Awesome rechargeable batteries.

So if the Tenergy are good for low use/low discharge applications, what would you use the Eneloop's for? Toys, cameras, etc. I would assume? Components with higher use necessitating more cycle time on the battery? What about a flashlight? Straight alkaline or a rechargeable?

I briefly looked into rechargables but man there are so many choices I ended up keeping a bunch of alkalins around.

Re: Tenergy rechargeable batteries:

I see that these batteries are 1.2V, so I'm thinking that light intensity would be less than it would be with 1.5V batteries. OTOH:

1.5 / 1.2 = 1.25

So less than one f-stop if intensity is proportional to voltage – not a big degradation.

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
Oh, and get thee some Eneloop AA and AAA batteries if you don't already have them.

I'm still trying to get past the name.

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:
So if the Tenergy are good for low use/low discharge applications, what would you use the Eneloop's for? Toys, cameras, etc. I would assume? Components with higher use necessitating more cycle time on the battery? What about a flashlight? Straight alkaline or a rechargeable?

I briefly looked into rechargables but man there are so many choices I ended up keeping a bunch of alkalins around.

Eneloop is the brand name for Santo/Panasonic's low self discharge NiMH batteries. If Eneloop made D sized batteries, I'd be recommending those.


1.5v and 1.2v is the nominal voltage for Alkaline and NiMh batteries, respectively. Battery voltage is actually higher when fresh, and decreases as the cells are spent. For Alkaline batteries, that drop off is pretty significant. It'll start at 1.6v and drop down to 0.9v pretty linearly. For NiMH, it basically sits at 1.25 for the duration of the discharge.

Most things designed for 1.5v Alkaline batteries will accept NiMH batteries no problem, as the they anticipate the battery voltage to be all over the place as the cells discharge. (That is, at any given moment, a 1.5v alkaline battery might actually be giving off anywhere from 0.9 volts to 1.6 volts, so product designers design around this). Some very simple electronics will vary their output with the cell voltage... An old Maglight would get dim as the cell discharged, or a can opener would have more omphf with fresh batteries. However, most electronics today, including LED flashlights, have regulated circuits that will take whatever incoming voltage from the battery and normalize it to whatever the electronics need. My NiMH batteries give the same light output as fresh Alkalines in my LED flashlights.

I prefer low self discharge NiMH for almost all home applications I can think of, except maybe TV remotes and smoke detectors.

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:
So if the Tenergy are good for low use/low discharge applications, what would you use the Eneloop's for? Toys, cameras, etc. I would assume? Components with higher use necessitating more cycle time on the battery? What about a flashlight? Straight alkaline or a rechargeable?

I briefly looked into rechargables but man there are so many choices I ended up keeping a bunch of alkalins around.

To clarify, low self discharge NiMH batteries refer to the fact that the battery can sit on a shelf for a while and only discharges itself a little bit at a time. It doesn't mean that the batteries are only good for low drain/low discharge uses.

A regular NiMH might lose 1 to 2% of it's charge PER DAY. A LSD-NiMH is designed to lose 10-20% of its charge PER YEAR. A LSD-NiMH might have lower capacity compared to a regular NiMH. For instance, a regular NiMH D cell might have 10,000 mAH, but a LSD variant of the same battery might only have 8,000 mAH.

In high drain devices, like a digital camera, two way radios, NiMH batteries typically outperform Alkaline. In a camera, for example, the flash bursts might start out recycling faster with alkaline, but the cycle time will drop off as the battery gets depleted.

Here is a really good, and short summary of battery technology. Pay attention to the difference between NiMH and LSD NiMH:

https://www.rei.com/learn/expe...dvice/batteries.html

Thank you for the explanation. That was a good read. I've got to go over the link again to digest more but I'm working on it lol.

Eneloop AAs- is this what I want? https://www.amazon.com/Panason...&keywords=eneloop+aa

"Newest Version" and generation this or that- is this the latest?

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Eneloop AAs- is this what I want? https://www.amazon.com/Panason...&keywords=eneloop+aa

"Newest Version" and generation this or that- is this the latest?

Does anyone know if the ones at Costco are the same as the model Para linked to here? The specs seem the same to me.

Yes, those are the ones you want.

Costco usually has a pretty good price on them, but I just came back from Costco minutes ago, and it seems that they've removed the Eneloop batteries from the shelves. Their stock has been dwindling over the past few months, so no surprise. Not sure if it's my local Costco, or Nationwide.

Never been a fan of Ray-O-Vac. They just don't last. Know nothing about their 'new' product lines.

I normally stick to the Energizer brand.

PROCELL is the professional grade battery manufactured by Duracell. The boxes are labeled as such. In fact, the boxes are also labeled 'NOT FOR RETAIL TRADE'.

The name...I had to know.

"Eneloop is a brand developed by Sanyo (now Panasonic) for rechargeable batteries and associated devices, introduced to the market in 2005. The name Eneloop orginated from “energy loop”, based on the concept of recycling energy."

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
I prefer low self discharge NiMH for almost all home applications I can think of, except maybe TV remotes and smoke detectors.

Why would you want those leaking pieces of garbage in TV remotes and smoke detectors? Do the NiMH not work in those applications?

I bought some Tenergy AA and AAA batteries and pretty much got away from the darned leaking Duracells for everything I could.

ETA: Okay, having read most of the paper linked above (Thanks Aeteocles!), I understand not using rechargeables in smoke detectors. Maybe remotes too - I can't remember the last time I changed a battery in a remote...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: slosig,

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
I prefer low self discharge NiMH for almost all home applications I can think of, except maybe TV remotes and smoke detectors.

Why would you want those leaking pieces of garbage in TV remotes and smoke detectors? Do the NiMH not work in those applications?

I bought some Tenergy AA and AAA batteries and pretty much got away from the darned leaking Duracells for everything I could.

Most manufacturers recommend lithium batteries for remote controls.

Aeteocles has become my personal shopper. I'm ordering Tenergy D cells and Eneloop AAs and a charger.

I've got a couple of portable radios that run on AAs. Is there any reason why the Eneloops wouldn't be a good choice for these devices?

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Aeteocles has become my personal shopper. I'm ordering Tenergy D cells and Eneloop AAs and a charger.

I've got a couple of portable radios that run on AAs. Is there any reason why the Eneloops wouldn't be a good choice for these devices?

I'm very good at spending other people's money

Can't see any downside to the Eneloop batteries in your radios.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
I prefer low self discharge NiMH for almost all home applications I can think of, except maybe TV remotes and smoke detectors.

Why would you want those leaking pieces of garbage in TV remotes and smoke detectors? Do the NiMH not work in those applications?

I bought some Tenergy AA and AAA batteries and pretty much got away from the darned leaking Duracells for everything I could.

Most manufacturers recommend lithium batteries for remote controls.

Lithium is optimal. Lowest self discharge, no leak. One set of cells will likely last the life of the device. The no maintenance smoke detectors use lithium batteries.

However, I still prefer Alkalines for my TV remotes. Eneloops are too expensive to sit inside of a TV remote for a year at a time.

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
Lithium is optimal. Lowest self discharge, no leak. One set of cells will likely last the life of the device. The no maintenance smoke detectors use lithium batteries.

However, I still prefer Alkalines for my TV remotes. Eneloops are too expensive to sit inside of a TV remote for a year at a time.

Thank you sir, you are a wealth of information!