I thought maybe the Forum would have some ideas here for this one?

I serve on my church security team and the radios have never been great inside and I volunteered to research better ones. Not sure what type we have but they are small inexpensive Baofeng units (I think) and the audio frankly stinks inside our building from what I suspect is the steel frame and/or steel joists used there.

Most of the time the audio transmission is very garbled and I joke it's like the adults in the Peanuts cartoons "Wahh wahh wah wah wah" and this is going to bite us in the ass some day I fear.

Are there any basic hand-held units that take an earpiece that have better reception inside a building like this or do we need to look at a real system with antennas and repeaters?

Any ideas or suggestions would be really appreciated!

Sounds like you may be looking for a business radio line such as Midland BizTalk or comparable offerings from Motorola. They are not inexpensive though.

Maybe research something something that would transmit and receive in the "UHF" spectrum... Uhf frequncies seem to penetrate buildings better than "VHF" frequencies... On any handheld radio they are subject to factory sub standard "rubber ducky"antenneas"..... Also make sure that the radios are all actually transmitting and recieving on the some frequencies... A slight frequency shift in offset can seriously degrade the audio.... Possibility contact someone in your community area such as a ham radio club for suggestion to help.. The Baofeng type cheap Chineese radios are capabile of transmitting on frequencies that require a license vs being used where no license not needed so be sure of the frequency that is being used............ drill sgt. / KL7JIU

Our security team uses black box radios from Klein Electronics. Multi channel and reception is clear to the farthest reaches of the parking lot.

Got this from a pal:

"We use Midland FRMS radios. Model LTX600s. We're quite happy with them.

I bought them from factoryoutletstore.com But there's any number of sources."

Assuming your church is miles across, there’d be no need for repeaters. MURS is probably what you should be looking at for an affordable option. 5 channels, license free, and business use is allowed.

It would be nice to see a pic or get the model number of your current radios to find out what they are. Hard to say what will be “better” if don’t know the baseline.

I have been asked to join our newly starting Church security team and we are looking at what radios would be affordable and functional.


Unless you have a very large campus with multiple buildings there shouldn’t be a need for a repeater.


I think many churches use GMRS and/or FRS radios. They are cheap but lower power (especially FRS). FRS radios are pretty much license and restriction free but limited output and crappy non-replaceable antennas. You can get higher power going with GMRS, depending on which model you go with but technically each user is required to have a GMRS license for use. While one license will cover all members of a “family” that broad definition may not be accepted for Church security use.


Additionally, the intended use of GMRS is ”… for individuals such as family members and friends, scouting troops, emergency response groups, and hobbyists to communicate with each other over short distances, directly or through a repeater station. “


It could be argued that “emergency response groups” would apply to use for a church security team, but it could also be argued that it doesn’t as most of the communications would likely be routine and not an actual emergency response. Personally, I think the “emergency response groups” verbiage refers to things such as local disaster response, “CERT” (Community Emergency Response Teams) and other such activity that is not of an ongoing/routine nature.


So what are the options?

1. FRS/GMRS - already discussed
2. “HAM” radio - would not be an allowed use of the amateur/HAM bands
3. “Business radios” - lots of options here, radios are more expensive and in many cases require a specific FCC license for the business.
4. “MURS” (Multi Use Radio Service) - License free, 5 channels for general business use. 2W output allowed should be plenty of power however it is VHF band which may present issues with indoor use or use between people in neighboring buildings. VHF could work fine in single-story, wood frame construction but as construction density (cement, metal) and number of floors increase penetration may become a problem.
5. Digital 900mhz radios - looks like these may be used without FCC license requirements, but radios are much higher priced than other options.


Another concern may or may not relate to “privacy”. GMRS/FRS radios are wide open and lots of them out there. Don’t expect any privacy on these and may have several other unrelated folks trying to use same channels. “Privacy codes” will filter out reception of many unwanted transmissions, but don’t really offer any “privacy” from others listening in to your transmissions.

MURS, while license free, are in much less use so not likely to experience much competition for the available channels. Still not “secure” and could be heard by others with a MURS radio or just about any scanner.

Business radios with FCC license would probably be the most “secure” without going to digital, but still subject to eavesdropping by scanners.


Not quite knowing (yet) what my church’s budget for radios is going to be, we are going to fist do some testing with MURS to see what kind of coverage and audio quality we get.

Sounds like a tough situation with the radio issues! If you're looking for better options, consider upgrading to a digital two-way radio system like the Kenwood TK-3400. They’re compact, have better audio quality, and can handle interference from steel structures better. Plus, they usually have earpiece options for hands-free communication. If you really want to go all out, a repeater system could definitely improve coverage, but it might be more of a budget hit.

quote:

Originally posted by drill sgt:
Maybe research something something that would transmit and receive in the "UHF" spectrum... Uhf frequncies seem to penetrate buildings better than "VHF" frequencies...

Yes, UHF is better for punching through buildings and walls. GMRS radios operate in the UHF spectrum, specifically the 462-467 range. FRS radios ("bubble pack radios") are cheaper and share the same frequencies, but at lower power ratings of 2 watts max, while GMRS is 5 and 50 watts. And in general, more power is good to get through walls. Big businesses use business radios with an assigned frequency, but the mandatory license costs $500 for a single simplex frequency, good for 10 years.

I have used my Wouxun GMRS handhelds from a parking lot to inside a building through multiple walls and it worked fine, maybe a distance of 100 yards.

After going down the rabbit hole, I ordered a couple of Retevis RT10 radios to evaluate:

https://www.amazon.com/Retevis...e-Free/dp/B08P1N21V3


While they are Chinese, I’ve had Retevis HAM HT’s in the past and was happy with build and quality. These are getting good reviews and being digital 900mhz, they offer secure communications without any licensing requirement at a much lower cost than the Motorola 900mhz license free options.

Digital generally has superior sound quality and 1w output at 900mhz should have no issues being inside. They will arrive Sunday, I probably won’t be able to evaluate at the church until the following Wednesday, I’ll report back after using them a bit.

I based my recommendation on MURS because that’s what I believe my kid’s school, which is in a good size church complex, uses. Their radios are 5 channel Motorolas which I assumed were MURS. I’ve used them while subbing and they work fine from building to building as well as with in the buildings.

I’m subbing again tomorrow and will check what they are.

Has anyone ever though of an app that allows a church security team to use their phones and earbuds? Use cellular or WiFi to join the church network which turns your phone into a walkie talkie? Everyone has earbuds these days...

Tony.

I just downloaded Zello on my phone and tested it with a buddy of mine who is 20 miles away. We were talking like we were on push to talk walkie talkies. It even records voice and text chat history. I was impressed! No radios to charge and nobody has to turn it in after services are done.

Audio quality was excellent! You can create a private chat group that requires a group owner to approve members. There's a company version as well. We just used the personal version. It works as long as you have cell service or WiFi. Most churches have a private WiFi network anyway, so the the church admin to get you WiFi access if cell signal is sketchy.

I'm going to demo it with my church on the next meeting. It supposedly works with the most minimal cell signal.



Tony.

When I was on a fed task force we used Zello as a back up comms source as radio coverage was spotty in the River counties. As long as you have cell service, it works great. Without a full comms support unit, repeaters and cellular back up, I wouldn’t waste money on radios.

You can also look at TAK-CIV, it's a cell phone and computer app that when used with a VPN app that can provide voice, text and PLI info. It's free to download. Trex Labs has a couple good videos on it. Plus, as you can down load it to your personal phone, every team member can be on it. I'm assuming you have good cell coverage in the facility.

Another option is to see if anyone in your area is doing trunked radio as a service. The outfit I used to work with used the lease the service and equipment for a monthly fee. They did the coverage analysis and handled the device managment.

Kid's school uses Motorola RMM2050 radios which are in fact MURS. They use them to communicate with the teachers in in four classrooms in a seperate building, comms during the drop off and pick up of students, general comms throughout the day, comms during fire and lockdown drills, etc.

I've used them while subbing and they work well. No issues covering the sanctuary, seperate 4-classroom building, or the 16 classrooms and offices with in the main building attached to the sanctuary. Metal roof buildings, interior walls are drywall and probably metal studs. I'm not sure about the exterior walls. They seem to be CBS, concrete block stucco.

I've dealt with similar issues in my own experience, and it can be super frustrating. If you’re looking for a better solution, you might want to try radios like the Kenwood TK-3402 or Motorola CP200D. I've heard good things about how they perform indoors and they work well with earpieces. If it gets too complicated, a repeater system could really help with clarity, but that might be more than what you need. Testing a few models first can save you a headache later on.

Motorola Talkabout radios, they have better audio quality and support earpieces.

We use Motorola business with a variety of wired earpieces. BT earpieces also exist. You don't want audible comms when you are saying "did you see that guy with a weapon?" as people tend to get nervous.