quote:

Originally posted by copaup:
A major part of my current job involves cell phones. Apple is far more secure than Android. NEITHER is particularly interested in user privacy and will sell your data out in a heartbeat in order to turn a profit all while publicly shouting about keeping your data private.

That is not true. Apple absolutely does not resell your data. Period. Read their privacy policy. Or you can trust CEO Tim Cook's summarization: Tim Cook touts new Apple privacy policies in open letter to customers.

(I don't know why the story headline reads "new privacy policies," because, TTBOMK, Apple never has monetized their customers' data. Google/Alphabet/Android's entire business model, OTOH, is based upon monetizing their users.)

As to which is more secure, Apple or Android: I'll only note most of the security professionals I know are using Apple products. Personally: I have some degree of trust in them. I don't trust Google/Alphabet and Android very much, and I trust Samsung even less. I used to have a degree of trust in Motorola Mobility, but Google/Alphabet sold them to Lenovo. So much for that.

The security of the devices and applications that run upon them, and the monetization of your private data are two different things. I don't know as I'd say the difference, security-wise, is night and day between the two. Otherwise: If you're going to continue to use Google services such as Google's calendar, and Gmail, and you're going to continue to keep your contacts stored on Google's servers, you might as well stick to Android.

I've moved every last scrap of personal data off Google's servers--other than the bare minimum to be able to use our Android TV devices. Eventually I plan to replace those with Apple TV devices, after which point I'll dump Google entirely--Gmail and all.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
None of what you posted proved my original statement incorrect. Just because a government agency decides to go with a certain platform does not prove Android is more secure than iOS.

Okay. What is your proof that "iPhones and their OS by design are much more secure. It’s not even close."?

quote:

Originally posted by Gear.Up:

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
None of what you posted proved my original statement incorrect. Just because a government agency decides to go with a certain platform does not prove Android is more secure than iOS.

Okay. What is your proof that "iPhones and their OS by design are much more secure. It’s not even close."?

Second data point: I'm subscribed to three or four different I.T. security-related resources. I see far more alerts regarding Android devices and Android device manufacturers' than I do iPhones.

Even if discounting those that result from people side-loading, which one should never, ever do unless they really know what they're about, the ratio is still several-to-one.

It's like this: I see an Android-related security notification and I think "Another one?" I see an iPhone-related notification and think "Oh?"

I did not drop Android in favour of Apple lightly. I wish I could go back. I cannot. The security of my devices and my wish for my personal information to remain mine trumps what I like about Android over iOS.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by Gear.Up:

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
None of what you posted proved my original statement incorrect. Just because a government agency decides to go with a certain platform does not prove Android is more secure than iOS.

Okay. What is your proof that "iPhones and their OS by design are much more secure. It’s not even close."?

Second data point: I'm subscribed to three or four different I.T. security-related resources. I see far more alerts regarding Android devices and Android device manufacturers' than I do iPhones.

Even if discounting those that result from people side-loading, which one should never, ever do unless they really know what they're about, the ratio is still several-to-one.

It's like this: I see an Android-related security notification and I think "Another one?" I see an iPhone-related notification and think "Oh?"

I did not drop Android in favour of Apple lightly. I wish I could go back. I cannot. The security of my devices and my wish for my personal information to remain mine trumps what I like about Android over iOS.

Well stated.

A lot has to do with updates to the OS. Apple is very vigilant in updating provided you have a phone that is considered current. iPhone 6 and up I believe, maybe older. Android updates don't come from "Android" they come from the various phone manufactures who are free to add their own little goodies to the system so you are depending on them it identify issues, write the fix and distribute it. In this arena, there is no comparison with Apples model.

I am a Android user but I think iPhones are inherently more secure by design.

Why am I on android then:
I don't like how Apple locks down the device, restricts customization, and has a general we know better attitude. Although some of those things lend to the added security.

See Steve Gibson's coverage of the iPhone security and the secure enclave.
https://www.grc.com/sn/sn-446.htm

BlackBerry makes android based devices, they're going to be among the most secure you can find.

I think that if you stick with a major brand, non-Chinese Android phone, you're secured enough. Samsung phones have Knox (secured enclave) and are one of the very few brands approved for use by DoD personnel, including battlefield use.

Some Chinese brands are famous for having spyware even on the factory images. But in general, I stay away from all Chinese brands and don't sideload.

Also as stated, Google constantly scan (roughly once a day) and remove any threat from your Google-certified Android handset without you knowing (there are many non-Google certified Android phones in the world). Google also bypasses the manufacturers and update your phone against threats via a couple of Google's Android super-apps.

As from the thread posted above, iPhones sends data to 3rd parties (much like Android), and in many cases had allowed for spying on the users and this spying in fact happened far less often on Android.

So take your pick - in the end, you have to hope that Apple and Google stay vigilant.

quote:

Originally posted by saigonsmuggler:
As from the thread posted above, iPhones leaks data to 3rd parties, and in many cases allowed for spying on the users and this in fact happened far less often on Android.

You keep regurgitating this despite having been corrected.

That was one use case, which Apple addressed w/in a couple days of it being discovered. One.

For Google/Alphabet/Android: Harvesting user data and usage patterns is the business model.

So you're harping on one use case occurring on iThings that is SOP on Android? Srsly?

quote:

Originally posted by Gear.Up:

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
None of what you posted proved my original statement incorrect. Just because a government agency decides to go with a certain platform does not prove Android is more secure than iOS.

Okay. What is your proof that "iPhones and their OS by design are much more secure. It’s not even close."?

From 2009 to 2018, Android had over 400 more vulnerabilities than iOS.

it is the worst type of spying that had allowed for the most personal and financial data (well except for nude pictures, which had also been leaked by iPhones) sent to 3rd parties. Some of these are HUGE datastreams which went undetected/allowed by Apple.

And it is not the first time that iPhones were discovered/hacked that had allowed for leaks. Not the first time. And not the last either.

And that was not one case, it is a separate case from the leaks that HRK posted. And this is only from very recent history.

Also note this - there are over 600 Android phone manufacturers, and many of which are very very dubious, including some that actually had spywares in their factory images. So this is why Android appears more leaky. However if you stay with the major brands (Pixel, Nexus, Samsung, LG) the cases are actually much less.

I'm going through this with my work now. I have Samsung android phones at home through at&t.

The .gov authorized Android phones from Samsung all have to run Knox. That is a VPN and security package not native to Android or Samsung, it is installed and managed by the agency.
Knox is what makes these phones more secure, not the brand or the operating system.

Knox is native to Samsung. Samsung's Knox

Google Pixel has a similar mechanism.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
iPhones and their OS by design are much more secure. It’s not even close.

In Pwn2Own hacking competitions (mostly by whitehats, unsurprisingly often won by Chinese hackers) Apple's products such as Macs and iPhones don't usually fare well, and usually fell in the first stages of the competition.

Samsung/Google next and then Linux. Some Linux distros are pretty tough.

BTW iOS (and other Apple OSes) are mostly based on BSD (UC Berkeley's fork of AT&T Bell Labs Unix from the old days). Android is actually Linux.

Chrome is especially tough to crack in recent times. Often hackers didn't even attempt, or tried and failed.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
From 2009 to 2018, Android had over 400 more vulnerabilities than iOS.

And reported 2019 exploits to date:
Android: 31, 17 of which could be triggered remotely.
iOS: 50, 44 of which could be triggered remotely.

Source: CVE Details

I just want to see people providing evidence, not their beliefs or spouting off because of platform wars.

I use both iOS (for tablet) and Android (for phone) and might switch to Apple for phones but it's just because I'm trying to extract myself from Google's data selling. I don't want to be "the product."

quote:

Originally posted by Gear.Up:

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
From 2009 to 2018, Android had over 400 more vulnerabilities than iOS.

And reported 2019 exploits to date:
Android: 31, 17 of which could be triggered remotely.
iOS: 50, 44 of which could be triggered remotely.

Source: CVE Details

I just want to see people providing evidence, not their beliefs or spouting off because of platform wars.

I use both iOS (for tablet) and Android (for phone) and might switch to Apple for phones but it's just because I'm trying to extract myself from Google's data selling. I don't want to be "the product."

5 months is too small of a sample size. https://mybroadband.co.za/news...re-than-android.html

I would say that iPhone leaking gigs of data while you sleep and letting many popular apps recording videos and keystrokes on their users rank 9/10, and and that's just so far this year.. let's not forget last year's (and previous years) bypasses of lock screen to access photos and contacts on iPhone (it's a tradition on iPhones)..

Anyway here's what I was talking about previously:

quote:

The biggest change from Google has actually been quite subtle. Google has moved its security efforts deep within Android, into Google Play Services, which Google can update regardless of what version of the operating system users are running. That allows for programs like Safety Net, which lets Google watch for malware on devices, even malware that was sideloaded from outside the Google Play store.

From there, Google has not just expanded the security features of Android, but also worked to make Android devices into security devices. Google recently announced that Android devices can be used as FIDO2 two-factor authentication devices, providing one of the best and most flexible 2FA options to every Android owner.

You guys are arguing over Lorcin vs hi-Point.

I'm set up with Mobileiron EMM . Those who care about real security use it or one of their competitors. But this is usually offered via your employer, who has to care enough about security to use it.

Otherwise the risks are much greater on all platforms. Only drawback is the Mobileiron EMM can use more battery, but it's a small price to pay for security. I have a secure version of E-Trade which I feel good about and I have the web@work setup too for added security.

No setup is perfect, but I feel I have a Glock 17 and not a hi-Point or Lorcin for my mobile security.

Of course now my employer gets to see what I do on my phone. :headscratch: but hopefully I've provided some idea of what security looks like on a phone. And I suppose it's possible things like the pics I take on the phone may not be 100% safe.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: radioman,