One or even a few individual agents aren’t the FBI, and individuals who do the wrong things are found in any organization. The US Marine Corps, for example, is evidently highly respected among members here, but does anyone recall the Marine who spied for the Soviets?

In this case, isn’t the fact that the agent who lied is being charged is a good thing we can point to about the FBI? I’m sure many people there wish it had just never happened at all, but it did and the agency acted despite the unfavorable fallout that inevitably accompanies such things.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
One or even a few individual agents aren’t the FBI, and individuals who do the wrong things are found in any organization. The US Marine Corps, for example, is evidently highly respected among members here, but does anyone recall the Marine who spied for the Soviets?

Yes, I'm sure there are still many fine individual FBI agents and employees. I'm talking about the organization as a whole. An organization I've respected my entire life that has been shattered in the past decade. With their completely politicized investigations and leadership I have no confidence in anything the agency says.

Any agency that can't figure out the motive behind all of the domestic terror attacks we've had is either completely and totally incompetent or completely and totally politicized. There's really no middle ground on that - these killers have made their motive crystal clear.

FBI and DHS says Chattanooga shooter's motive still remains unknown

Pulse gunman's motive: Plenty of theories, but few answers

Bizarre: FBI Calls Scalise Shooting 'Spontaneous,' Gunman 'Had No Target In Mind,' Motive Unclear

Those are just the first ones that popped into mind - you can go on and on with this nonsense. Coupled with stuff like listing a dozen crimes Hillary committed and then saying you're not going to prosecute - until new leadership comes on board and puts an end to nonsense like this I won't have any confidence in anything the FBI says or does. YMMV.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
All the projectiles fired or thrown at the three other people barricaded in the vehicle after Lavoy exited were less-lethal rounds, including flashbangs to distract/disorient the occupants, baton/beanbag rounds to break windows, and OC (pepper spray) capsules to force them to exit the truck. This went on for several minutes, until they eventually complied, exited, and surrendered.

I would kindly suggest that after one of their party has been shot and killed, that the police firing bean bags and flashbangs at the truck is going to convince them that they are being shot at with real bullets and real explosives. Might not someone in that situation think they need to defend themselves and their family?

A group of armed, wanted criminals are barricaded inside a vehicle. They're ignoring repeated commands to come out with their hands up and surrender. What should the police do?

Is not using a certain amount of non-lethal force to compel them to comply reasonable?

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Stupid should hurt.

It frequently does.

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
All the projectiles fired or thrown at the three other people barricaded in the vehicle after Lavoy exited were less-lethal rounds, including flashbangs to distract/disorient the occupants, baton/beanbag rounds to break windows, and OC (pepper spray) capsules to force them to exit the truck. This went on for several minutes, until they eventually complied, exited, and surrendered.

I would kindly suggest that after one of their party has been shot and killed, that the police firing bean bags and flashbangs at the truck is going to convince them that they are being shot at with real bullets and real explosives. Might not someone in that situation think they need to defend themselves and their family?

Wonderful idea. However, flawed execution. If I go into the hood, and start making fun of people living there, instigate a fight, and get my ass whipped, it is really hard for me to conclude that it is reasonable to use deadly force to defend myself and my family. In essence, this bunch had instigated a fight with police by their actions caused every bit of this. Any claims of "self defense" is bullshit, for lack of a better term. You can't instigate a fight through your actions, and then try to claim you were just defending yourself. Hence, why the guys at OSP were cleared on the actual shooting. He played stupid games, won stupid prizes.

Looks like they didn't have much of a choice. He also put other family members at risk.

always amazed when LEO's lie about this stuff. 99% of the time they will be cleared of the shooting but its the fabrication regarding the shooting that sinks them.

BamaJeepster,

I'm with you.

I love me some FBI.

I suppose it's my belief that they are the final line against corruption within. I have always thought that as long as the FBI was on the job, America was safe. The Constitution would remain intact and whole. Liberty was safe.

I still hope for that. But ever since the Ruby Ridge debacle, Waco and the Branch Davidians, and Hillary's obvious treason among those items you identified...something has gone wrong.