So my daughter just started the semester in the professional pilot program at Cochise College in Arizona. She's got her private pilot's license already, but all of her flight time has been in Cesna 172's. Her school exclusively uses Piper Archers (yes, the irony and appropriateness of my daughter flying an Archer has not been lost on me) and Beechcraft Baron 55's. She's got a little anxiety about making the transition. She's been studying the avionics and spent a little time in the simulator. Any tips or suggestions from the pilots on the forum I can pass along?

Learn the v-speeds and procedures. I started in a Cherokee 140 (the Archer’s wimpy brother) and finished in a 150 37 years ago. The Cherokee felt more stable and had more inertia and wing loading while the 150 felt like a kite. From recollection, the 172 is closer to the Cherokee or Warrior (between the Cherokee & the Archer), but still more lightly loaded. Because the Archer is a low wing, ground effect will likely be a little more pronounced in Archer than in the 172, but they’re both good honest, no surprises airplanes. I expect she’ll notice some subtle differences, but have no problems at all adjusting.

The Baron is entirely different, but not as crazy different as one might think. It is also a solid, honest airplane that doesn’t have any crazy surprises in its DNA. Things will happen faster in a Baron and there is more going on in a Baron, but I’d be shocked if they threw her straight into a Baron. She’ll have time to come up to speed in the Archer before messing with a twin. It is a twin and most of the multiengine training is learning to fly an airplane designed to fly on two engines with only one engine running.

The folks at the college are there to teach her and help her succeed and they’re using good airplanes to do it. She’ll be fine. Tell her to relax and have fun!

I bounce back and forth in both instructing all the time. Sight picture over the cowl a bit different. Throttle controls a bit different, but all this is muscle memory etc that comes quickly. Location of avionics and instruments same deal. Study the POH, use/memorize items in the checklists, and relax. When time allows, she should just go sit in the aircraft and practice operating the flaps, reaching for the control for selecting which fuel tank is in use, etc. Peripheral vision will be different high vs low wing as well as previously mentioned ground effect. In the end she will become a better pilot after flying different kinds of birds.

Not a difficult transition with good instruction.

One important difference is fuel management. The C-172 selector has a "both" position; set it and forget it. Low wing airplanes like the Archer do not have the ability to draw fuel from more than one tank at a time, so attention needs to be paid to the fuel selector valve; there is a checklist item to remind the pilot to select an appropriate tank for take-off and landing. Also fuel-related, low-wing airplanes generally have electric boost pumps in addition to the mechanical engine-driven fuel pumps. Some models specify that the boost pump should be turned on for take-off and landing and when switching tanks, other low-wing airplanes like the v-tail that I owned specify that the boost pump is not to be used for normal flight operation unless the mechanical pump fails to deliver fuel. All of these things are explained in the POH (Pilot's Operating Handbook), they should be covered during transition training, and they are all on the checklist that should be used religiously.

I started in Cherokee’s and then added high wings later. After a couple landings to get used to the different sight picture, I didn’t find the differences a big deal. Remembering to switch fuel tanks regularly in the Archer is about the biggest difference

Each has inherent advantages over the other. Almost all of my time was in the Piper Cherokee series (including Warrior, Archer, Arrow, and Dakota). I only have a few hours in high-wing.

I read all of the other comments - they are all right. Having experience in both low and high wing will make her a better pilot.

The only question I have - has she grown in height? Rudder pedals in some models aren't set for those who are shorter. (Imagining her wearing thick soled shoes to compensate).

The Archer is a nice, stable airplane. She'll have no trouble transitioning from the Skyhawk to an Archer. As noted, there are minor differences, like managing fuel tanks and the manual flap lever. I learned to fly in a C152, and then moved to a 177 Cardinal, an Archer, and finally a Cherokee 6.

The low wing will float over the runway at the least inopportune time...
Then bounce...

I did my primary training in a Grumman Cheetah. After I got my PPL, I bought a share in a Piper Warrior II…160 h.p. I used the Warrior for my Instrument Rating and S.E. Commercial add-on. The Archer is 180 h.p., so it’ll perform a little better than the Warrior or C172.

I didn’t fly a Cessna until I started my CFI/CFI-I training. I had no issues transitioning to a high-wing. I’m dumber than a box of hammers…I’m sure your daughter will have no problem whatsoever between the two. [thumbs up]

Nearly all my hours are Cessna 150/172, with a few flights in a couple low wings, Piper Sundowner being one.
After being acclimated to the Cessnas, the low wing was an adjustment, but I maybe had 15hrs under my belt at the time.

That's all this former student pilot [didn't finish my PPL, sadly] has to offer on it.

My basic instruction was on Pipers and I then transitioned to high wing.

Learn the speeds, the biggest difference is in the sight picture on landing and the fact that ground effect is a bit more pronounced on low winged aircraft.

I enjoy flying them both and the best part is that a couple hours with an instructor opens up a whole new collection of aircraft to fly.

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:

Piper Sundowner.

I have never seen, nor heard of, a Sundowner model manufactured by Piper.

I am familiar with the BeechCraft Sundowner, one of the models in the Beech 23 (Musketeer) series. I have instructed in these, and I believe that one of our SIGforum members in Georgia owns (or did own) one of these. Looks something like this:

She'll be fine. I learned to fly in a Cessna 150 (I'm dating myself), I now fly the 152 and 172. For a few years I flew a Piper Tomahawk with the more complex fuel system as V-Tail noted.

She's already preparing herself and the CFIs will help her out. She'll be fine.

Memorize, memorize, memorize. Know the speeds. Know the emergency memory items. Know the limitations.

The different sight picture and the location of various switches etc will become second nature super quickly. It is no different than driving your regular car forever then getting a new car.

There are various mnemonic aids for different aircraft. I highly recommend she learn the applicable ones for her aircraft and operations. e.g. on an instrument approach crossing a fix: "Time, turn, twist, throttle, tires, talk". "Pitch, Power, Airspeed". These things really help when the workload gets high.

Knowing the systems is very important. Fuel, electric, gear, engine management, prop, pitot/static, etc. Regular operations are pretty simple and boring, so it is easy to gloss over systems. But when something unexpected happens it is critical to really understand the systems. As already mentioned, the fuel system will not have a BOTH position.

Overall I never found transitioning all that difficult. Ideally she will only be flying one type of aircraft in any phase of training, so she can concentrate on knowing one type at a time.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:

Piper Sundowner.

I have never seen, nor heard of, a Sundowner model manufactured by Piper.

I am familiar with the BeechCraft Sundowner, one of the models in the Beech 23 (Musketeer) series. I have instructed in these, and I believe that one of our SIGforum members in Georgia owns (or did own) one of these. Looks something like this:

Thanks VT, been a long time, but Sundowner stuck in my head.
The other I flew was a Piper, would need to find my logbook for the model.

My crack dealer [plane owner that let me use her 150 as long as I kept it fueled & didn't crash it] traded ber 177/Cardinal for a Piper Lance. A rocket by comparison.

quote:

Originally posted by phxtoad:
I started in Cherokee’s and then added high wings later. After a couple landings to get used to the different sight picture, I didn’t find the differences a big deal. Remembering to switch fuel tanks regularly in the Archer is about the biggest difference

And you can add a timer/reminder on many of the GPS systems..especially Garmin to aid with this management.

My father is a pilot. He started in 172 and joined a club that had an Archer II. personally, I prefer the Archer as I feel I have a bit more room in it. I don't recall him saying anything about issues with transition other than learning where everything is, all procedures, and the key speeds and performance metrics. I know he really enjoys flying it.

I used to transition from 150 to 172 to Warrior. The visibility, and the tendency to float more in ground effect (when I had a little too much energy/speed) were the two items I remember as being quite different. The 172 was more problematic for me, as it felt harder to see out of on the ground vs the 150.

quote:

Originally posted by coloradohunter44:

quote:

Originally posted by phxtoad:

Remembering to switch fuel tanks regularly

And you can add a timer/reminder on many of the GPS systems..especially Garmin to aid with this management.

I used a simple, old-fashioned method. If the big hand was on the left side of the clock on the panel (the 9 o'clock side), I used the left fuel tank. When Mickey's big hand passed the 12 and advanced into the right side of the clock, I switched to the right tank.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by coloradohunter44:

quote:

Originally posted by phxtoad:

Remembering to switch fuel tanks regularly

And you can add a timer/reminder on many of the GPS systems..especially Garmin to aid with this management.

I used a simple, old-fashioned method. If the big hand was on the left side of the clock on the panel (the 9 o'clock side), I used the left fuel tank. When Mickey's big hand passed the 12 and advanced into the right side of the clock, I switched to the right tank.

Seems a pretty foolproof method.