March 7, 2007

Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
By Chris Demorro
Staff Writer

The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate "green car" is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.

Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.

The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?

You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius's EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.

However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn�t be writing this article. It gets much worse.

Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the "dead zone" around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius' battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist's nightmare.

"The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside," said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.

All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn't end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce "nickel foam." From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?

Wait, I haven't even got to the best part yet.

When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius's arch nemesis.

Through a study by CNW Marketing called "Dust to Dust," the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.

So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.

One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.

quote:

Originally posted by KevH:
The truth is EV costs more to buy, more to insure, more to fix, has limited range, and has an extremely finite lifespan. In other words, no matter how much you like them, or the concept of them, right now they are not practical. They're a toy.

And can be a bitch to charge.

quote:

Originally posted by KevH:
Damn near every parking lot, every grocery store, has charging stations. There are far more charging stations than gas pumps in this state (https://www.gov.ca.gov/2025/03/20/california-now-has-48-more-ev-chargers-than-gasoline-nozzles-in-the-state/)

More chargers than gas pumps for only 3.4% EV vehicles?
Most of these grocery store/parking lot installs were paid for with ' GAVIN BUCKS' no doubt.

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:

quote:

Originally posted by KevH:
Damn near every parking lot, every grocery store, has charging stations. There are far more charging stations than gas pumps in this state (https://www.gov.ca.gov/2025/03/20/california-now-has-48-more-ev-chargers-than-gasoline-nozzles-in-the-state/)

More chargers than gas pumps for only 3.4% EV vehicles?
Most of these grocery store/parking lot installs were paid for with ' GAVIN BUCKS' no doubt.

Totally. That idiot and his ilk have been subsidizing this nonsense with my tax dollars for the past ten years.

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:

quote:

Originally posted by KevH:
Damn near every parking lot, every grocery store, has charging stations. There are far more charging stations than gas pumps in this state (https://www.gov.ca.gov/2025/03/20/california-now-has-48-more-ev-chargers-than-gasoline-nozzles-in-the-state/)

More chargers than gas pumps for only 3.4% EV vehicles?
Most of these grocery store/parking lot installs were paid for with ' GAVIN BUCKS' no doubt.

This is at just the county level:
https://mcecleanenergy.kinsta....v-charging/#what-you'll-get

Without government subsidies I guarantee we wouldn't even be having this conversation, because there would be ZERO interest from private business and minimal interest from wealthy hobbyist consumers in EV tech.

The entire industry has been government subsidized and/or legislatively mandated for years.

If I wasn't capable of having a home charger. There is absolutely ZERO chance I would have gotten one over 4 years ago. All those people stranded in the cold or jammed up superchargers are self inflicted.

Here’s an interesting link to electricity generation and costs. Some countries are subsidized, like Iran being the lowest electricity seems almost free.

https://www.globalpetrolprices.../electricity_prices/

Canada does fairly well with high levels of hydroelectric power, then a fair amount of nuclear.

A biggie ramping up in many States are green energy mandates going in to the future. I just saw on MI news an attempt to try to roll some of them back. It adds to costs to mandate wind, solar & others if not viable.

CA may have solar panels everywhere, but costs are right up near Hawaii, Maine not far behind.

quote:

Originally posted by 08 Cayenne:
I drive upwards of a 100+ miles per day so have been avoiding them. Now getting ready to retire I'm considering one. In addition I run my house 100% solar so basically very economical once its paid for.

You would actually be a perfect candidate for one. With the miles you drive you could charge at home from your solar and not have to charge until you got home again.

I looked up a guy who drove one on a much longer trip than you typically have and needed one charge. If you watch this video with an open mind it's obvious to see why there is such a high rate of return and the number one opinion after owning an EV and getting back into an ICE vehicle is that it makes and ICE vehicle seem like 1950's technology by comparison.



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=...93YSB0ZXNsYSBndXk%3D

Coming to a road near you.. Pretty cool,Leno takes the Tesla Semi for a drive.

https://x.com/SawyerMerritt/st.../2036126552929247697

quote:

Originally posted by KevH:

The truth is EV costs more to buy, more to insure, more to fix, has limited range, and has an extremely finite lifespan.

I’m going to disagree with these assessments

My 2020 Tesla Model 3 didn’t cost much more than a fully loaded Camry when I bought it brand new. Insurance cost is less than my Lexus (I live in the highest insurance cost area in the country)

I’ve got just shy of 100k on it currently. I’ve put a set of tires and filled the washer fluid. That’s the only normal out of pocket cost I’ve had. $1000 for 100,000 miles. (Rough speaking). I had rodents eat a wiring harness and main computer, which cost $2500. I’m at 3500 with a fluke repair. My Lexus LX570 costs me $1000+ depending on what the service interval is every 5000 miles, not including 10 tanks of premium fuel cost during that. 125k miles. Tires and service is over 10k (no gas)

I have a home charger. Limited range is BS. ICE vehicles have limited range as well, tank only holds so much gas. It’s a simple change of habit which 90% of the public doesn’t have to do. They don’t drive 100!miles a week. I use mine and am able to drive 250-300 miles a day for work, full charge every morning 10%-100% costs $2. Lexus is $70+ for same distance currently

Time to let range anxiety and old worn out argument's go by the way and focus on real world aspects.

Are they end all best of everything vehicle, absolutely not. Neither is a Honda civic pretending to be a 1 ton pickup truck

quote:

Originally posted by PR64:
Pedropcola, thank you for the compliment on my car. I personally don’t think that the EVs will take over the market. I don’t think they will save the planet.
Who wants a picture?

Hey PR64 - was this you?



That dude was hauling ass!

I wish…

Been new car shopping for the last couple of months. Toyota seems to be all in on hybrids. Hard to find a Tacoma or 4Runner that isn’t a Iforcemax. Finally found a Tacoma with the option package I wanted. Supposed to have been delivered end of last week. Still not here and dealer told me I needed to put a deposit in if I was remotely interested due to non-hybrids selling fast. While the hybrids sit on the lot.

Right after this thread was active in March, we traded our Model X in on a Lucid Gravity GT. I’ve owned a ton of cars over the years; no question, this is the most capable / fastest. 450mi range, 11 second 1/4 and super comfortable and fun to drive. Makes the Model X feel like a POS in comparison. https://imgur.com/a/ZONPmsX

I don't think the EV itself is dead. The push for them on the bogus grounds of "saving the planet" is on indefinite hiatus.

So, do the resale values of these things drop like a rock? Does a 1-2-year-old vehicle make it appealing as an "Around town" car? What brands would be the ones to look at?

I’ve never understood the EV hysteria.

My wife and I are approaching 80 YO. We have been thinking about an EV or hybrid as a grocery getter. We no longer travel and just do around town errands.

Retired x3, and low mileage travel now. My BMW iX is 3 years old. Just had the first self-paid maintenance service for $800, including tire rotation - next service is 2028. That's all I've spent on it, other than electricity and washer fluid. I drove 460 miles last month for $16 - equivalent gas for that distance for our SUV would be over $100 in these parts, plus over $2k for the equivalent maintenance interval. If we go cross-country to see the relatives we fly - quicker and cheaper than driving anything, lodging and travel included. Not the use-case for everyone, but an EV is a no-brainer for us.

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
I’ve never understood the EV hysteria.

I was the same until I drove them, once you have and get over the range anxiety, which isn't a thing anymore for 99% of the country, they make a lot of sense for daily commutes over ICE.

Plus even the slow ones are super quick, some are blindingly fast for the street as is any Plaid model in the Tesla line or PGT's Lucid Gravity GT... They are quieter than comparable ICE vehicles and smooth to drive.

Not to mention, you don't have to stop and get robbed at any gas stations, in fact I've been in maybe three gas stations since we turned on the home charging system. I've saved a ton on WaWa sub sandwich's and iced drinks alone!

Then again a 5.0 GT Mustang was burbling by in the Publix parking lot, that v8 sounds good...

I read where the Mach-E may be on the way out at Ford as they are redoing EV's completely as Ford learns how China is building them for less, a lot less.

Festus, Teslas with the FSD active is a big thing for seniors, it helps with driving as it can self drive you as you get older and concerned with getting out in traffic due to slower reflexes and feel safer.