Even if you drive an ICE vehicle your insurance will go up to pay the damages for a potential collision with an electric vehicle.


"Shocking Number": Rivian Owner Sees $42,000 Repair Bill For Minor Accident

https://www.zerohedge.com/tech...-bill-minor-accident

We've explained to readers that auto insurers are inflating premiums for their customers due to the skyrocketing costs associated with vehicle repairs. Some insurers are opting to write off electric vehicles even for minor incidents, as it's uneconomical to fix these complex systems. For those insurers who do undertake the repairs on EVs, the expenses are shockingly high.

The latest example of insurers getting roasted on repairs is a report from The New York Times that says a Rivian owner said his R1T electric pickup truck was involved in a minor fender bender in February in Columbus, Ohio. The insurance company of the driver who struck Chris Apfelstadt's R1T offered to pay about $1,600 for the repairs.

However, after the R1T was taken to a certified repair shop in Columbus, the costs soared to a whopping $42,000 -- or about half of the starting price of the EV.

"A key reason is that the accident damaged a sleek panel that extends from the truck's rear to front roof pillars. Repairing and repainting it set off a cascade of pricey work, including removing the interior ceiling material, known as the headliner, and front windshield," NYT wrote.

Perhaps the high costs were also associated with "Rivian's small size and youth"... and "like other auto start-ups, the company, which is based in Irvine, Calif., and delivered its first vehicles to customers in 2021, does not sell through franchised dealers and has had to build an independent repair network from scratch," the paper continued.

Auto experts have said repairing EVs is more expensive than fixing gasoline vehicles. We penned a note in March titled Not ESG-Friendly: Insurers Junk Entire EVs For Minor Accidents. It only takes one minor accident to damage a battery pack, and if that occurs, it must be replaced at the cost of tens of thousands of dollars.

At the same time, auto insurance rates are soaring as the cost of fixing not just EVs but all vehicles has led to significant losses for big insurance companies over the last few years. America's largest insurer, State Farm, lost 28 cents for every premium written in 2022. It posted a $13 billion underwriting loss for its auto arm.

If you've visited a vintage car show this summer, you've likely overheard chatter like, "I wish they still made cars like these." We agree that incorporating technology into cars is beneficial, but the expense of maintenance and repair in the event of any malfunction or minor fender bender is astronomical. Decades ago, when vehicles had no microchips, anyone with the right tools and common sense could repair these simple machines and even change the oil. It's becoming clear that complex automobiles have their downfalls.

Why not just make EV policies just liability only. No comp/collision coverage for EVs? Buy at your own risk.

I get that insurance is supposed to spread the costs around but this seems like bs. Why should my premiums explode because of EVs? Spread the higher premiums around amongst EV owners.

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Spread the higher premiums around amongst EV owners.

This has my full support. It’s horseshit to make people pay to repair new, fragile, and potentially hazardous if damaged tech.

They will get underwritten to specific models just like other cars.
A Ferrari gets a higher comprehensive rate than a Crosstrek.

It’s different when they talk about more or less forcing people into the damn things; how often do we see a Ferrari? If there are millions and millions of EC’s on the road the shared comp will get pricy fast.

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Originally posted by konata88:
Why not just make EV policies just liability only. No comp/collision coverage for EVs?

Why do that when you can charge everyone more?

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Originally posted by gearhounds:
It’s different when they talk about more or less forcing people into the damn things; how often do we see a Ferrari? If there are millions and millions of EC’s on the road the shared comp will get pricy fast.

I’d be OK with being forced into a Ferrari…

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Originally posted by konata88:

Why not just make EV policies just liability only. No comp/collision coverage for EVs? Buy at your own risk.

That would limit sales to those who can afford to pay cash. What bank would finance a purchase under those conditions?

A Rivian is a $100,000 car. Yes, that's a high repair bill but it's also an expensive car.

The cost of repairs for accidents is soaring in all new cars. More and more safety systems cost money. Look at the body shop cost for Ford pickups with aluminum bodies. I was in one last year to take a friend to pick up a car. A sign by the reception area listed labor rates for aluminum repairs as almost twice that of regular metal. Take a simple small SUV with a small accident where all the airbags go off and the seat belt tensioners blow. You find a two-year-old car worth $25,000 totaled over what used to be a fixable accident.

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Originally posted by V-Tail:
That would limit sales to those who can afford to pay cash. What bank would finance a purchase under those conditions?

Probably none. But if EVs enjoy gov subsidies and tax incentives, why should ICE purchasers also bear the cost of premiums?

EVs are a luxury item. The costs should be born by those desiring it. If one can’t afford it, one shouldn’t buy it. Why should the ICE consumer bear any costs?

Sounds like just another issue with broad adoption of EVs that hasn’t been fully considered.

my Tesla Model 3 insurance is the same as my 4runner currently

all speculation and making something out of nothing to rile people up, seems like ICE vehicle manufactures and anti propaganda groups grasping for marketshare retention. maybe it will make people better drivers in the US as the majority are completely incompetant

EV isn't the total answer, I have both. Mine is a profit center for my work car mileage reimbursement program

It will be interesting to see what happens. Repair costs will be way more expensive if the battery is involved but what about all this autonomy that is supposed to make all these cars safer. I’m not an EV basher but I can guarantee that even when all the manufacturers have 100% safe autonomous cars that our rates will not drop down to almost nothing to match it.


My house and car insurance combined went up $1500 this year and I called to ask why as my car is only depreciating. Their best response is “everyone else is raising rates”. Really, wtf.

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Originally posted by konata88:
EVs are a luxury item. The costs should be born by those desiring it. If one can’t afford it, one shouldn’t buy it. Why should the ICE consumer bear any costs?

My EV cost me a total of $19,700. It’s been the daily driver for 9.5 years now. It’s nothing like a Rivian, it’s a little Nissan hatchback. And it’s certainly not a luxury item by any means. Not all EV’s are fancy pancy hundred grand overcomplicated trucks. Oh, and I received no Fed incentives, rebates, or otherwise.

As with everything, there are exceptions. I'll assume that your EV will not drive higher premiums for the general ICE populace.

But if your EV, despite the relatively lower price and absence of incentives, still requires significantly higher repair costs than comparable damage on an ICE vehicle and also driving up premiums in general, than it's part of the conceptual problem.

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EV isn't the total answer, I have both. Mine is a profit center for my work car mileage reimbursement program

I feel like I’d have to drive a mile or two, in order to not only pay off the initial EV cost, but then start turning a profit.

Only limited by the distance my EV could go before needing a short stay at a coal-fired outlet.

How much per mile does your work pay, that buying a Tesla is profitable?

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How much per mile does your work pay, that buying a Tesla is profitable?

The current IRS reimbursement rate is 65.5 cents per mile, that would add up fast if you drive a lot for work...

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Originally posted by Veeper:

How much per mile does your work pay, that buying a Tesla is profitable?

The IRS website states that the "standard" mileage rate for 2023, is 65.5¢ / mile. Employers are not required to reimburse employees at the IRS standard rate, but every large company that I worked for in the past, used the IRS rate.

FWIW, my 2020 Ford Escape with the optional 2.0 EcoBoost engine (standard engine is 1.5L) costs between fifteen and twenty cents / mile for fuel, but the bulk of the cost is in consumables like tires, brakes, etc., the cost of scheduled maintenance and unscheduled repairs, depreciation, insurance, etc.

The standard rate on my GMC 3500 delivery truck is a money-loser for me.

I see this as simple math. The short answer is everyone's rates will increase in some way. If a segment of the market insurance companies cover increase in cost, they can pass some of it to the specific clients of that segment, but a big portion gets passed to everyone.

Remember insurance companies do not exist, regardless of their funny commercials, to assure you are 100% taken care of, but rather to make money and hit revenue and profit targets.

I think the contention here is when EV become the dominant type of vehicle. At that point, if a repair costs $30K when the comparable damage to an ICE vehicle would only be $5k, then there will be massive increases in everybody's premiums. Only mitigation may be from an actuarial perspective and intelligent self driving (and collision avoidance).

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Originally posted by konata88:
I think the contention here is when EV become the dominant type of vehicle. At that point, if a repair costs $30K when the comparable damage to an ICE vehicle would only be $5k, then there will be massive increases in everybody's premiums. Only mitigation may be from an actuarial perspective and intelligent self driving (and collision avoidance).

Yes that makes sense, you no longer control the vehicle, simply input your destination and it takes you there. We have to do this to make sure you are safe and we don't cost insurance companies a lot of money, who are big government donors.

So now we see the path to the loss of control of another element in your life.