^^^^Amen.
screw you that want to just up and cave to everything. You know, the evolving world and all. BS. Pure BS.

quote:

Just leave. Start a new organization which states in the FIRST SENTENCE OF THE CHARTER THAT THIS IS A biological MALE ONLY ORGANIZATION.

FIFY

quote:

Originally posted by vthoky:

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
Profit margins?

Yes. Boy Scouts of America (whatever its corporate name is now) is quita a large organization, and from what I'm told has been "economically challenged" for some time now.

[/drift]

That is true, but there is no profit.

quote:

Originally posted by Mars_Attacks:
We had a girl in our Boy Scouts troop.

They just called her "Bruce". She went hiking, camping, did everything just as well as the boys.

She wound up marrying my older brother and have been married for 45 years.

She's unstoppable, super smart, talented beyond imagine, raised perfect children, the best cook I have ever known. At 65 I bet she could out canoe anyone still.

She was never an "official" Scout, but she is everything the Scouts were all about.

Thanks for saying it.

This will make Scouts different. But the main mission of Scouting will not be changed. It is a change. Not destruction.

I am going to post Mike Rowes essay, as he says it much better than me.


Mike Rowe
Off The Wall: Death of the Boy Scouts?
May 16, 2018

Sharon Freeman‎ writes: Mike Rowe, I’m curious as to your opinion on the tragic death of the Boy Scouts of America?! I have several cousins that are Eagle Scouts, and I know that you are one also, so I feel you have somewhat of a vested interest in this matter. I didn’t have a problem with entire families going on Boy Scout camping trips, but to force them to become co-ed…I think that’s sad.

Hi Sharon

In 1974, I was a painfully shy twelve-year-old kid with an annoying stammer and a deep fear of trying anything new. I was also very awkward around girls. I dreamed of being near them, but in real life, their proximity made me sweaty and nauseous. So one evening, my father dragged me to the basement of Kenwood Presbyterian Church, where the boys of Troop 16 were in the midst of an organized brawl called British Bulldog. The rules were simple.

One kid stood alone in the middle of the room. On the far end, 25 boys waited for the scoutmaster to blow a whistle, at which point they’d bolt to the other end. During the charge, the kid in the middle would attempt to tackle somebody and lift him in the air long enough to yell, “1,2,3, British Bulldog!” That kid, if successfully lifted, would join the other kid in the middle of the room, and together, they’d go about the business of tackling and lifting other kids during each subsequent charge. In the end, the last one to be lifted was declared the winner – the British Bulldog.

I was immediately thrust into this pandemonium and hoisted into the air, despite my best efforts to remain grounded. Somewhere along the way I got a bloody nose. Others sustained busted lips, black eyes, and sprained fingers. Happily, the game was followed by a course in First Aid, taught by a local paramedic who showed us how to apply a tourniquet and administer CPR. It was awesome.

In the coming weeks, I learned how to tie a sheepshank, throw a boomerang, build a fire, and make a lean-to. I was given a Boy Scout Handbook, and told to memorize the Scout Law and The Scout Oath. I did, and a week later, after another round of organized violence and hands on learning, I was summoned to the stage in the basement. There, I stood by the flag, raised my right hand, and promised to “do my duty to God and my country, obey the Scout Law, help other people at all times, and to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.”

The Scout Oath was the first promise I ever made, and I tried my best to keep it. I also got busy earning Skill Awards and Merit Badges, a consistently frustrating pursuit that always seemed to highlight my chronic incompetence. The Scoutmaster, a retired Army Colonel named Mr. Huntington – often said, “I know you’re uncomfortable, Mike. Might as well find a way to enjoy it.”

In Troop 16, merit badges reflected merit. There was a boxing ring, where differences were often settled, monthly camping trips, frequent visits to the shooting range, weekly fitness tests, poetry readings from memory, and many other activities tailor-made to pull every kid out of his particular comfort zone. It was often humbling, but never humiliating. Failure was simply viewed as the most common symptom of trying. Consequently, the more I tried, the more I failed. The more I failed, the more I succeeded. The more I succeeded, the more confident I became. My grades improved in school. My stammer vanished, as did my awkwardness around girls.

One year at summer camp, I was called upon to sing a song of my choice at the evening campfire. It was parent’s night, and several hundred people from multiple troops were on hand. None were expecting me to belt out a tune from Tom Lehrer called “Be Prepared,” but that’s precisely what I did.https://bit.ly/2wJWpjm

If you’re not familiar with this little gem, give it a listen. It is without question the most inappropriate song a Boy Scout could ever sing in public, but I thought it was hysterical, and packed with excellent advice. Afterward, Mr. Huntington offered a general apology to the parents in attendance, and gave me latrine duty for the duration of the encampment. Later though, he pulled me aside and said, “Mike, that was the funniest damn thing I’ve ever heard. Great job!”

Six years and two-dozen merit badges later, I was an Eagle Scout. Thirty-five years after that, I became a “Distinguished” Eagle Scout. I’m still not sure what I did to “distinguish” myself, but I accepted the award with gratitude, and I’ve tried ever since to give something back to the organization that gave me so much. Which brings us to what you’ve called “the tragic death” of The Boy Scouts, and the frightful prospects of “forced co-ed camping.”

According to their official statement, https://cnn.it/2HOv7gY, the Boy Scouts are welcoming girls because that’s what the overwhelming majority of parents want. From what I can tell, no one is being “forced” to do anything. Nothing in their statement talks about “co-ed” camping or even co-ed Troop Meetings.

As I read it, The Boy Scouts are launching a separate program that serves girls. Yes, The Girl Scouts are pissed, and the reason is clear – they don’t want the competition. https://theatln.tc/2l0pq4f. But respectfully, is that argument even remotely persuasive? Competition is good, even among organizations that have similar goals. Especially now, with 90 million kids in this country unaffiliated with any youth-based organization. So I’m not opposed to building a program within Scouting for girls. But I am very worried about the future of Scouting in general.

When I left the organization in 1979, there were 5 million active members. Today, there are 2.3 million. With the recent departure of the Mormon community, that number will soon drop to under two million. Clearly, something is wrong. The question is what? Is it the past sexual scandals? Is it the more recent admission of gay and transgender members? I would imagine those are factors. But a 60% decline? That seems very unlikely. Besides, the drop-off started long before all that. Likewise, girls have always been excluded from The Boy Scouts, so I’m skeptical that welcoming them now, will fix whatever’s broken.

In my opinion, this kind of attrition can only explained by an increasing lack of relevance, or, the perception of irrelevance. Unfortunately, in situations like this, there’s no difference between perception and reality. And right now, there’s a perception that The Boy Scouts have gone soft. That’s the real tragedy, Sharon, because I can’t think of anything more needed in our country today, than a youth organization that offers kids the same experience I underwent in the basement of Kenwood Church. Why? Because our country’s current obsession with “safe spaces” is destroying character faster than the Boy Scouts of today can build it.

Obviously, we want our kids protected from the hazards of a dangerous world. And clearly, the world we live it is a dangerous place. But safety is not the purpose of our existence, and this whole idea that kids need to be protected from fear, distress, discomfort, and disappointment is far more dangerous to the future of our country than anything I ever encountered in Scouting. You can’t build character in a “safe space.” You can only build dependence and entitlement, and you don’t have to look very far to see the results. Pardon my rant, but the stakes are high.

Too many kids are graduating from high school with no sense of who they are. Too many kids are leaving college with no marketable skill. Too many kids have never pondered a code to live by, or considered the importance of anything beyond the pursuit of their own comfort. It’s easy to call these kids “snowflakes,” but where do you suppose they came from?

We are the clouds from which the snowflakes fell. We are the ones who gave them trophies just for showing up. We’re the ones who told them that their feelings were more important than their actions, and that their dreams would come true if they simply followed them. Now, we are confronted with millions of dissatisfied young adults with no tolerance for beliefs that conflict with their own, and no realistic understanding of how life actually works.

I know I’m generalizing. I know there are many hardworking, conscientious millennials out there. I employ several. But I also know the “safe space movement” is real, and I can think of no better way to push back than to expose more kids to the brand of Scouting that I was lucky enough to encounter four decades ago. If by some miracle the dynamic I experienced in Troop 16 were available to everyone today – if Scouting could somehow recapture that combination of risk and wonder and pride and personal accountability – I believe their ranks would swell with the sons and daughters of millions of anxious parents, desperate to expose their kids to a program that prepares them for the real world.

I worry about The Boy Scouts for the same reasons I worry about The Girl Scouts and The Future Farmers of America and Skills USA and The 4-H Club and every other group that tries to elevate virtues like hard work, delayed gratification, and personal responsibility. I worry, because those ideas are wildly out of fashion, and organizations that have traditionally celebrated them are under enormous pressure to “evolve.” And so they do. But to what end? A 60% drop in membership?

If the Boy Scouts want to attract a new generation of members, they’ll need to stand for something more than inclusion. Because being inclusive doesn’t make you relevant. If I were calling the shots, I’d take a stand against the safe space movement and everything it embodies. And I’d do it in the most public way possible. But of course, that might also require a level of risk completely inconsistent with current orthodoxy.

As we all know, in 1974, a chipped tooth or a black eye didn’t lead to lawsuit, and today, I’m pretty sure a boxing ring and a trip to the shooting range would make a lot of parents…uncomfortable. But that’s exactly the point. In a world that values safety above everything else, discomfort is never welcome. Neither is risk. And yet, discomfort and risk are precisely why my time in Scouting was so valuable, and why Troop 16 was the polar opposite of a safe space.

Anyway Sharon, that’s a very long way of saying that girls are not the enemy. The enemy is bad ideology, and the inability to effectively confront it. Do I favor co-ed Scouting? Hell no. I can’t think of a single good reason to put girls and boys in the same troop, the same tent, the same boxing ring, or the same game of British Bulldog. But I can think of many good reasons to include them in a unified effort to confront the siren song of “safe spaces.”

Someone has to challenge the insipid belief that safety is the most important part of living. Someone has to challenge the idea that feelings trump achievement. Someone has to challenge the idea that “crying closets” on campuses designed to console stressed out students who just can’t handle their finals exams, (or the outcome of a presidential election,) will produce a responsible, productive adult.

It’s not enough to simply ignore bad ideas. The safe space movement needs to be confronted, and I’d love nothing more than to see Scouts of both genders lead the charge.

Mike

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That Rowe piece is on target.

The Scouts don't teach knots and fire building. (Well, they do, but that isn't the main point.) They teach self reliance, follow through, leadership, responsibility, and a code of decency.

This is good for boys and girls.

Allowing girls in won't ruin the Scouts if they keep doing what they should be doing.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
It is a change. Not destruction.

That's the stupidest thing I've read in a while.

You guys who are OK with this shit- you are a big part of the problem. You heard me- a BIG part of the probem. If every man in America pushed back against this shit, we MIGHT be able to make a difference.

You think this is OK? You think it's OK to have the BOY scouts admitting girls? You are out of your minds, and you are a big part of the problem.

My God!

Tell me some more horse shit stories about women being unofficial scouts. Hell, you might as well find some random book in your home, open it to any page, and start reading- mid-paragarpah and mid-sentence, even.

That would mean as much to the subject at hand as do silly stories about "unofficial scouts". Good grief.

The American male is now not allowed to have ANYTHING exclusively. We can't even have exclusive membership IN AN ORGANIZATION THAT IS NOT ONLY INTENDED FOR BOYS ONLY, IT HAS THE WORD "BOY" IN ITS NAME!!!!

Oh, but it's not destruction. The FUCK it's not. Hear me? The FUCK it's not destruction of the BOY Scouts.

LEAVE YOUNG MEN ALONE!! STOP FUCKING WITH THEIR LIVES!!! STOP CONFUSING THEM AND STOP MAKING THEM SACRIFICE THE THINGS BOYS SHOULD HAVE ACCESS TO. STOP SACRIFICING THESE YOUNG MEN TO THE STUPID FUCKING ALTER OF GODDAMNED POLITICAL CORRECTNESS AND RADICAL FEMINISM!!

And I'll tell you something else- woe unto the next forum member who starts a thread on this subject. You shall rue the day. Fair warning.

Sorry Para. I wasn't meaning my post to stir up stuff, just confused as to how it is being implemented. Hearing from others on here as to how it is being implemented with them is helpful.

What the hell ever happened to the Girl Scouts and the Brownies? They were equivalent to the Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts, but specifically for girls. I suppose it’s ok for boys to now join the Girl Scouts and Brownies… geez, this PC crap continues to get out of control.

I can’t wait for the next Olympics when the guys who can’t make the team decide to call themselves females and take home all the women’s medals. So much for Title IX, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex.

There is one reason why girls are joining The Boy Scouts, and not The Girl Scouts. Same with trying to get women into combat. Or dummying down requirements to get them into fire depts.

It's called being stylish.

Most Girl Scout troops suck for girls who want to camp or really take part in outdoor activities. I don't know what they do, but their idea of camping is an overnight at a state park with a finished bathroom with showers. That is some of the appeal for girls who do like actual outdoor activities.

They don't seem to be able to make up their minds


The Girl Scouts filed a lawsuit Tuesday against the Boy Scouts, accusing the latter group of violating trademarks as it now lets girls into its programs.

In the lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York, the Girl Scouts of the United States of America (GSUSA) accused the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) of trademark infringement, unfair competition and dilution.


The Girl Scouts noted in the suit that while the word “scouts” is used in both youth organizations’ trademarks, the two groups are “distinct, with one offering leadership programming developed for and aimed at girls, and the other offering programming developed for and aimed at boys.”

“However, that core gender distinction between the two organizations and their use of the term SCOUTS and variations thereof has been altered by BSA’s recent decision to offer all of its services to both boys and girls of all ages for the first time in its long history,” the lawsuit said. “Indeed, even though GSUSA and BSA have congressional charters and separate grants of intellectual property rights that are specific to girls and boys, respectively, BSA is now using its trademarks in a manner that is both new and uniquely damaging to GSUSA, its trademarks and their underlying goodwill.”

Following the move to allow girls into its programs, the Boy Scout organization has attempted to swing its “core brand identity” toward the simple designation “scouts.” By the Girl Scouts' reckoning, the Boy Scout organization has no authority to do, according to the lawsuit.

“BSA does not have the right under either federal or New York law to use terms like SCOUTS or SCOUTING by themselves in connection with services offered to girls, or to rebrand itself as ‘the Scouts’ and thereby falsely communicate to the American public that it is now the organization exclusively associated with leadership development services offered under that mark to girls.

The change would spur public confusion, tarnish the Girl Scouts’ trademarks, erode the group’s persona and “marginalize” its “movement by causing the public to believe that GSUSA’s extraordinarily successful services are not true or official ‘scouting’ programs,” the lawsuit said.

The lawsuit charged that misinformation has spread through parts of the country, including that the two organizations have joined forces and that the Girl Scouts have dissolved. Families have since “mistakenly” registered girls up for the new programs from the Boy Scouts.

“BSA regional councils and troops have used the GIRL SCOUTS trademarks in their advertising and marketing materials since BSA’s announcement occurred,” the lawsuit said. “BSA is even using quotations from GSUSA’s founder, Juliette Gordon Low, about the value of GIRL SCOUTS programs to promote BSA’s newly launched services.”

And despite the Girl Scouts efforts make the Boy Scouts aware of the “instances of actual confusion,” the lawsuit claimed that “the unauthorized uses of GSUSA’s intellectual property, they keep recurring.”

“Only GSUSA has the right to use the GIRL SCOUTS and SCOUTS trademarks with leadership development services for girls,” the lawsuit said. “To the extent BSA wishes to open its programs to girls, it cannot do so using GSUSA’s intellectual property without authorization, in a manner that causes confusion among the public and harms the goodwill of the GIRL SCOUTS trademarks.”

In a statement to Fox News, the Boy Scouts said the lawsuit had been brought to their attention and "are reviewing it carefully."

“Our decision to expand our program offerings for girls came after years of requests from families who wanted the option of the BSA’s character- and leadership-development programs for their children – boys and girls. We believe that we owe it to our current and future members to offer families the options they want," the statement said.

“We applaud every organization that builds character and leadership in children, including the Girl Scouts of the USA, and believe that there is an opportunity for both organizations to serve girls and boys in our communities," the statement continued.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/gir...pyright-infringement

Allowing girls into Boy Scouts was their last hope. Boy Scouts was struggling with falling membership numbers (most organizations like them are) combined with the fact that the Mormon church is pulling out of Boy Scouts as a whole to start their own org. It's a money grab plain and simple. It's not about what's best for the children, it's not politically motivated. It's much simpler than that.

Say what you want to. Most people are completely ignorant of history. The Communists have been trying to get rid of the Boy Scouts since 1914. They saw them as a threat because the Scouts taught marksmanship. They did not want Americans to learn to shoot. Wonder why? They have finally obtained their objective by putting the Scouts in such a bad shape it no longer resembles what it once was. They went through the back door by getting on the females in Boy Scouts bandwagon. And that my friends is the end of they Boy Scouts and what it stood for. Don't believe me? Read your history and tell me I am wrong. One of the Commie tenants is to make the abnormal seem normal. Sound familiar?

quote:

Originally posted by Ox190:
<snip>Boy Scouts was struggling with falling membership numbers (most organizations like them are) <snip>

The very same thing can be said of church.

Personally, I think the reason for the decline is most parents are lazy and don't want to do anything. I am a den leader for both Tigers (first grade) and Wolves (second grade), in addition to being the Pack treasurer/central committee member. The reason I have to lead 2 dens...We can't get any parents to step up and do it.

We do a recruiting event every year at the start of school. I had a few boys that were interested, but their parents basically told them no, they don't have the time to do it. We see larger enrollment numbers as the boys progress to later grades. Mostly because the parents are not required to attend the den meetings like they do for the younger ones.

Same thing goes for soccer. I see many of the same kids in soccer as I do in Scouts.

Same thing goes for PTA.

Parents can't be bothered.

quote:

Originally posted by 1967Goat:

quote:

Originally posted by Ox190:
<snip>Boy Scouts was struggling with falling membership numbers (most organizations like them are) <snip>

The very same thing can be said of church.

Personally, I think the reason for the decline is most parents are lazy and don't want to do anything. I am a den leader for both Tigers (first grade) and Wolves (second grade), in addition to being the Pack treasurer/central committee member. The reason I have to lead 2 dens...We can't get any parents to step up and do it.

We do a recruiting event every year at the start of school. I had a few boys that were interested, but their parents basically told them no, they don't have the time to do it. We see larger enrollment numbers as the boys progress to later grades. Mostly because the parents are not required to attend the den meetings like they do for the younger ones.

Same thing goes for soccer. I see many of the same kids in soccer as I do in Scouts.

Same thing goes for PTA.

Parents can't be bothered.

I believe it.

I have strong doubts that commies who are anti marksmanship are involved.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

I have strong doubts that commies who are anti marksmanship are involved.

Doubling down I see.

It's not such a big deal in the cub scout ages, although I still don't agree with it. If my son wants coed activities he has swimming team, tae kwon do, 4-H, his drama class, STEM class, etc.

He needs a place to be a 12 year old boy. And as they get older it becomes more important. The male bonding is now lost with girls around. There is nothing wrong, nothing, with having some groups that are gender specific.

I have voiced my opinion extensively in this topic in the past, I won't repeat myself too much here.

But anyone who thinks boys act the same around girls is just ignorant of social behavior and history.