I am waiting for the " he was a good man and he was turning his life around". Can't wait to see what the news puts a spin on. No way I could be a cop these days.

De institutionalization of mental hospitals was a big mistake for this country and the mental patients.Most of them end up in a jail or prison who are not designed to care for them.


That is an understatement of the problem. Healthcare workers are assualted at a very high rate.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

Originally posted by striker1:
Can any LEOs comment on what effect a dog might have had?

Guy like that might have seriously injured or killed one.

One maybe. But I'd be all for turning three of four Belgians loose on his ass and watch them peel his hide off.

One time many years ago I personally witnessed a a big guy jacked up on drugs attack two guys in a group of people. The entire encounter came to an immediate end when one of the good ole boys in attendance hit the guy alongside the knee with a home run swing using a three foot metal wrecking bar. I'll never forget how that knee almost exploded on impact and how quick the bad guy ended up in a ball on the ground screaming. The cops in this encounter needed to employ that level of violence of this clown.

That's like some drug borne out of how to make super soldier experiments.

His physical functioning wasn't impaired like alcohol but he was feeling no pain at all.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

Originally posted by striker1:
Can any LEOs comment on what effect a dog might have had?

Guy like that might have seriously injured or killed one.

One maybe. But I'd be all for turning three of four Belgians loose on his ass and watch them peel his hide off.

One time many years ago I personally witnessed a a big guy jacked up on drugs attack two guys in a group of people. The entire encounter came to an immediate end when one of the good ole boys in attendance hit the guy alongside the knee with a home run swing using a three foot metal wrecking bar. I'll never forget how that knee almost exploded on impact and how quick the bad guy ended up in a ball on the ground screaming. The cops in this encounter needed to employ that level of violence of this clown.

While that would be effective, the officers would likely face internal discipline and potential criminal charges, as striking joints with impact weapons is not taught, and a prosecutor could argue that they exceeded their authorized force and committed an assault with the intent to inflict serious injury.

If you think I’m joking, I’m not. That’s the reality for most officers today.

Imagine that, a crazy dirtbag that comes from a whole family of dirtbags. What did he say after they tased him, I didn't catch that.

What a waste of police resources. That's a lot officers that could be patrolling other parts of town rather than being forced to deal with this jackass.

These officers could all use Gracie Survival Tactics training.



.

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

Originally posted by striker1:
Can any LEOs comment on what effect a dog might have had?

Guy like that might have seriously injured or killed one.

One maybe. But I'd be all for turning three of four Belgians loose on his ass and watch them peel his hide off.

One time many years ago I personally witnessed a a big guy jacked up on drugs attack two guys in a group of people. The entire encounter came to an immediate end when one of the good ole boys in attendance hit the guy alongside the knee with a home run swing using a three foot metal wrecking bar. I'll never forget how that knee almost exploded on impact and how quick the bad guy ended up in a ball on the ground screaming. The cops in this encounter needed to employ that level of violence of this clown.

While that would be effective, the officers would likely face internal discipline and potential criminal charges, as striking joints with impact weapons is not taught, and a prosecutor could argue that they exceeded their authorized force and committed an assault with the intent to inflict serious injury.

If you think I’m joking, I’m not. That’s the reality for most officers today.

It’s all about articulation; we’re trained to strike the common peroneal nerve just above the knee. It is fairly easy to hit in training scenarios on a static target. On an erratic moving target, not so much. As long as you can articulate the facts of aiming for that point, a near miss due to a resistant perp in motion would be covered...or should be, if your department isn’t in the habit of throwing you under the bus.

Here's another, similar police action on the other side of this area, involving similar circumstances: Link This one happened in April.

For those wanting to to let the dog(s) loose, the one deputy who did has been charged, along with two State Troopers. RPD was involved in the scuffle, but restraint is well practiced, again.

The political climate is just not going to allow a full-on whip ass regardless of the emotions.

Btw, Hinton, as well as the usual same sjw were at the current "media event."

Use of Force is never pretty, and it is rarely perfectly executed.

I wouldn't be surprised if the family sent him out everyday in hopes he got his ass kicked by the police and are looking for a payday. Quite a line up of people they assembled for the media show to criticize the police. Where were they all before this incident, you know helping him with his medical needs because they all care so much about him? No where to be found.

Son, you are driving mamma crazy today, why don't you go play in the road like a good little boy.

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
One time many years ago I personally witnessed a a big guy jacked up on drugs attack two guys in a group of people. The entire encounter came to an immediate end when one of the good ole boys in attendance hit the guy alongside the knee with a home run swing using a three foot metal wrecking bar. I'll never forget how that knee almost exploded on impact and how quick the bad guy ended up in a ball on the ground screaming. The cops in this encounter needed to employ that level of violence of this clown.

While that would be effective, the officers would likely face internal discipline and potential criminal charges, as striking joints with impact weapons is not taught, and a prosecutor could argue that they exceeded their authorized force and committed an assault with the intent to inflict serious injury.

If you think I’m joking, I’m not. That’s the reality for most officers today.

Not just today, either. A neighboring agency had an incident about 10 years ago, where an officer was in a fight and ended up busting the bad guy in the knee with his his 3x D-cell Maglite, dropping him and ending the fight.

While there weren't any criminal charges pursued, the officer was disciplined and demoted, the agency paid for the guy's knee to be rebuilt, and everyone at that agency had to turn in their heavy metal Maglites in exchange for smaller and lighter rechargeable flashlights.

(And gearhounds: I haven't read the report, so I don't know how the officer articulated it. But whatever he said, it didn't end well for him.)

...throw them worthless ASP batons away and give officers "night sticks" or straight batons again to bust them craniums with!

Let the police "police" again by choking the ever loving shit out of that piece of shit an when his lights go out the fight goes out!

This shit pisses me off police having to fight with maggots!

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
One time many years ago I personally witnessed a a big guy jacked up on drugs attack two guys in a group of people. The entire encounter came to an immediate end when one of the good ole boys in attendance hit the guy alongside the knee with a home run swing using a three foot metal wrecking bar. I'll never forget how that knee almost exploded on impact and how quick the bad guy ended up in a ball on the ground screaming. The cops in this encounter needed to employ that level of violence of this clown.

While that would be effective, the officers would likely face internal discipline and potential criminal charges, as striking joints with impact weapons is not taught, and a prosecutor could argue that they exceeded their authorized force and committed an assault with the intent to inflict serious injury.

If you think I’m joking, I’m not. That’s the reality for most officers today.

Not just today, either. A neighboring agency had an incident about 10 years ago, where an officer was in a fight and ended up busting the bad guy in the knee with his his 3x D-cell Maglite, dropping him and ending the fight.

While there weren't any criminal charges pursued, the officer was disciplined and demoted, the agency paid for the guy's knee to be rebuilt, and everyone at that agency had to turn in their heavy metal Maglites in exchange for smaller and lighter rechargeable flashlights.

(And gearhounds: I haven't read the report, so I don't know how the officer articulated it. But whatever he said, it didn't end well for him.)

As long as an officer can articulate that they were aiming for the striking point they were trained to target with (the important part) an authorized impact weapon, they should face no liability. A dynamic, moving target that is refusing lawful commands and resisting is to blame for any strike that lands outside the permitted target area. I suspect the officer in the situation you mention was using the Mag-lite as an impact weapon when there was no departmental policy for doing so. He may have even admitted aiming for the knee joint- a no no, unless trained to do so with any impact weapon...at least in my agency.

I mention this because we have been told at every use of force training session that liability would follow us for violating the use of force policy. We used to carry rechargeable Mag-lites, and were told specifically that we could only use them when deadly force was otherwise authorized...the same as we could for any object we could lay hands on.

As for the ASP, I carried various models for years and found them nearly worthless; now we are issued Manadnock Autolock expandables. I have yet to strike a living target with it, but there is a huge difference between it and any ASP product, as I'm sure you're aware. A better product in every respect.

At my old agency we had collapsible PLASTIC batons. No shit. Rumor was a deputy chief got a kick back from them. They made ASP batons seem like the hammer of Thor. Only way they were worth a shit was if you broke off the tip and stabbed someone with it, or used it as a backscratcher.

Our other option was a PR-24. I became very good at using that, and miss it every day (it's still in my closet for the day that they call for real police again).

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:
Our other option was a PR-24. I became very good at using that, and miss it every day (it's still in my closet for the day that they call for real police again).

Amen. The PR is king imo... short of a 3' riot stick, it generates the most devastating blunt trauma. My old one is under my bed within easy reach.

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

Originally posted by striker1:
Can any LEOs comment on what effect a dog might have had?

Guy like that might have seriously injured or killed one.

One maybe. But I'd be all for turning three of four Belgians loose on his ass and watch them peel his hide off.

One time many years ago I personally witnessed a a big guy jacked up on drugs attack two guys in a group of people. The entire encounter came to an immediate end when one of the good ole boys in attendance hit the guy alongside the knee with a home run swing using a three foot metal wrecking bar. I'll never forget how that knee almost exploded on impact and how quick the bad guy ended up in a ball on the ground screaming. The cops in this encounter needed to employ that level of violence of this clown.

While that would be effective, the officers would likely face internal discipline and potential criminal charges, as striking joints with impact weapons is not taught, and a prosecutor could argue that they exceeded their authorized force and committed an assault with the intent to inflict serious injury.

If you think I’m joking, I’m not. That’s the reality for most officers today.

No, I don't doubt you at all, we really have devolved that far as a society. I just personally have 'zero' tolerance for this sort of behavior out of people. Whether jacked up on drugs or alcohol, mentally ill, or simply being an illiterate asshole, when you leap way beyond the boundaries of society to act like this guy did, I no longer care what the police (or anyone else) does to put him down. I'd far prefer to see him injured, and severely, than I would LEO's or other people.

quote:

Originally posted by craigcpa:
The political climate is just not going to allow a full-on whip ass regardless of the emotions.

The "political climate" may very well get a whole lotta people killed in the long run. Society as a whole is only going to take so much of this BS out of the human waste floating around before people opt to take measures into their own hands. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if the government (via the police and other agencies) won't maintain the peace and protect those paying the tab, those paying the tab will opt to take care of themselves, which could result in a lot of body bags being necessary to deal with the aftermath.

I have been bitten twice by Bad people during fights while doing blue suit social work. I have read all the reply's and this crap happens too fast. Folks watching the fun thinks you can do this or that... maybe or maybe not. I have struck people with the ASP baton because I was not allowed to keep mt PR-24 after the Rodney king event. I have pepper sprayed myself and the bad guy and still with a 4 oz can used and no drugs he ran 100yds till it took effect. Tasers work great on cops in training class, I am not a fan of tasers. When 4 or more officers are trying to arrest a fighting non compliant person it is like trying to herd cats with an weed eater. You try not to die, control the bad guy and watch the crowd. As I told a roll call room 1 month ago as a officer you fight in four arenas the street, the courtroom , the press room and lastly social media. If you don't win on the street you die. So fight fight and then fight some more. In watching some have said it looks that some officers did not engage if you ain't on the field it always looks different. Trust Me I put a star on in 1989 things were way different then. Our fights still looked like the one these officers were in a cluser and we had wood batons and the authority the swing them any way and how. Crazy drugged and MEAN people do not comply. I would buy those guys and girls a beer because they did what Sean Connery said in the Untouchables " The most important thing you do is to go have at the end of your shift"...VI

Hey the host of the video, isn't he D-Day from Animal House?