quote:

I looked at engenious - I'm might be missing it but I only see switches and AP's.
No router similar to what I'm using?

If so, then to replace my current router with wifi/lan, I should buy a VLAN switch (to act as a router subnet under my modem; I know this is not entirely necessary) and an AP (to which I would attach to the switch)? I need to buy 2 Engenius devices (actually just the AP; I have a spare VLAN switch I could use here)?

Correct, EnGenius is not consumer oriented - more of a quality business product.
Their product are are task oriented and not an all-in-one device that most consumers think of as a "router".
It is a better design to have a separate wired router then link your switches with or without POE to end point devices like computers, network printers, or other network connected devices.
If you connect to an AP then POE will be required.


As for VLANs that is another design if you want or need to isolate networks.
You will need switches, AP's and router all to be VLAN aware/capable.
An understanding of VLAN's would be necessary.
Best to map out and design your network before buying the equipment.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
Their product are are task oriented and not an all-in-one device that most consumers think of as a "router".
It is a better design to have a separate wired router then link your switches with or without POE to end point devices like computers, network printers, or other network connected devices.

Sing it brother! Separate switch, router, and access point, do not settle for an A-I-O device, no matter what they (mis-)label it!

quote:

If you connect to an AP then POE will be required.

not necessarily, most APs allow power to be applied by a wall-wart transformer, although PoE does provide added flexibility in cabling, and is usually well worth the small price increment for a PoE-capable switch.

quote:

Best to map out and design your network before buying the equipment.

What a concept! Plan your network before buying? Who ever heard of such a thing?

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
Correct, EnGenius is not consumer oriented - more of a quality business product.

Which is why I use it.

I have been uniformly underwhelmed with the performance of consumer-oriented networking hardware.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
Best to map out and design your network before buying the equipment.

That's just crazy talk!

quote:

Originally posted by architect:
Sing it brother! Separate switch, router, and access point, do not settle for an A-I-O device, no matter what they (mis-)label it!

Yup: Routers to route, switches to switch, APs for WiFi, and never the trine shall meet--save via Ethernet cable

I get the concept of dedicated devices although I've been getting AIO (router/wifi/switch).

Current topology is modem to 3 AIO (router/wifi/switch); I'm trying to segregate devices that are attached to each. I have an intermittent issue w/ one of the AIO (not sure it's the AIO; it may be the attached devices; I'll explain more below).

If I replace the AIO, sounds like I should get a wired router/switch and then attach an AP to it. Devices attached to this router/switch, whether wired lan or wifi, should be able to communicate with each other (ie - various devices to printer).

I only see engenious gateways or switches. I don't see a router offered. Do I need to buy a gateway? A router from a different brand? A smart switch that will serve as a router?

My issue: I have two thunderbolt docks attached via wired LAN to the router/switch. My LAN connection intermittently gets dropped; usually affects both thunderbolt docks. I can reconnect by either restarting the router, restarting the docks and I think by just disconnecting/reconnecting the LAN cable at the docks. Not sure what's going on - this has worked for more than a year just fine. When this issue started to happen, I replaced the AIO. Now it's started to happen again w/ the new AIO (same brand). I believe other wired devices are affected as well - the wired subsystem of AIO seems to just go down. WiFi services seem to remain unaffected though.

quote:

Do I need to buy a gateway?

Gateway is a defunct term for a router, hasn't really been used as an equipment category since the Arpanet days, and even then, it was mostly a term to describe a box that hooked your LAN into a Telco circuit (e.g. a T1 line, ISDN, or a 56K pair). These days, the media conversion chore is handled either via a ONT (optical fiber drop) or co-ax modem (co-ax drop) although some provider provide an ethernet port for their WAN uplink. Most commodity routers these days are ethernet-ethernet, most often the 100baseT flavor with a separate "modem" that does the media conversion (e.g. fiber-100baseT or co-ax-100baseT). This can also be done on some routers and switches via a plug-in module known as a GBIC (mostly mid-higher-end units aimed at the commercial market).

Ok. It's still a bit greek to me but I get the impression that gateways serve a superset of router functionality (router + protocol conversion). So, an engenious gateway would be overkill but could serve in the absence of a specific router product offering. The problem is that the engenious gateway is $600. That's probably way overkill and way above my budget unless this thing will last for the next 20 years, including future proofing.

Could I use a smart managed switch in the place of a router? I don't know how to configure it (again, greek) but perhaps I could learn just enough if that would work. I have a managed switch on-hand that I'm not using (because I haven't yet figured out how to configure it). If not, and I really need a router, any suggestions since engenious doesn't seem to offer one and the gateway is too expensive.

Non-chicom brand is critical; not made in chicom is preferred.

quote:

If I replace the AIO, sounds like I should get a wired router/switch and then attach an AP to it.
Devices attached to this router/switch, whether wired lan or wifi, should be able to communicate with each other (ie - various devices to printer).

As long as they are on the same subnet - yes

quote:

I only see EnGenius gateways or switches. I don't see a router offered. Do I need to buy a gateway? A router from a different brand? A smart switch that will serve as a router?

They do make one > https://www.amazon.com/EnGeniu...al-WAN/dp/B0C3SMV283
..bit it is a rather expensive device that does more for the Enterprise than for the home.
I would suggest a wired router that supports vlans from Ubiquiti, Dlink, TP Link, Netgear, Linksys or others.

One that is very reasonable that works well is the Ubiquiti EdgeRouter 3 Lite, the cheaper X model and the more expensive 4 model all work well too.
In addition you can build your own if you have a dedicated PC available (does not have to be powerful but will need 2 network adaptors > on software such as PFSense or Untangle (now Arista), the basics packages are free.

quote:

My issue: I have two thunderbolt docks attached via wired LAN to the router/switch. My LAN connection intermittently gets dropped; usually affects both thunderbolt docks. I can reconnect by either restarting the router, restarting the docks and I think by just disconnecting/reconnecting the LAN cable at the docks. Not sure what's going on - this has worked for more than a year just fine. When this issue started to happen, I replaced the AIO. Now it's started to happen again w/ the new AIO (same brand). I believe other wired devices are affected as well - the wired subsystem of AIO seems to just go down. WiFi services seem to remain unaffected though.

Hard to say what is going on > going to sleep, physical connection, etc?
Docks themselves don't have an IP so when it happens do you check to see if you sill have an IP or it says the media is disconnected?
Maybe some power saving phenomena is going on affecting getting an IP.
In case you could program static IP to test.
Just a few ideas anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Ok. It's still a bit greek to me but I get the impression that gateways serve a superset of router functionality (router + protocol conversion).

No. "Gateway" is just another term for "router."

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
So, an engenious gateway would be overkill but could serve in the absence of a specific router product offering.

No, it's overkill because it's far more router than you could possibly need or use.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Could I use a smart managed switch in the place of a router?

As an Internet (or WAN) gateway device: No. Routers route. Switches switch. They're not the same thing.

For internal LAN/WLAN device or network segment isolation, using VLANs: Yes. Maybe. Depending.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
One that is very reasonable that works well is the Ubiquiti EdgeRouter 3 Lite, ...

That's what I've been using for years, but, be advised: Configuration is a bit geekier than your average consumer-grade all-in-one device.

Also be advised those are EOL'd by Ubiquiti, TTBOMK.

Used an ER8 for an internal router at work, too. It worked so well that, had I not retired when I did, a second one probably would have eventually replaced the Juniper router I'd been using for the Internet border router. (The ER8 was actually more stable.)

For small LANs I most often specify an EdgeRouter-X from Ubiquiti. At about $60 it does everything a home user needs with a decent GUI and the ability to add Debian software packages should not-already-in-the-box functionality be desired (e.g. a Wireguard site-to-site VPN tunnel). Widely used and well supported by a community of users. User/hobbyist support is usually superior to vendor support in my experience.

But, there is no substitute for knowledge and understanding. If you feel low confidence in being able to design and implement a secure, functional network, self-education is your first task to complete. There are many many free resources available on the 'net to learn from.

And, don't expect any computing or network device you are buying today to "last" 20 years, we are still in the infancy of networking technology.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
That's what I've been using for years, but, be advised: Configuration is a bit geekier than your average consumer-grade all-in-one device.

Also be advised those are EOL'd by Ubiquiti, TTBOMK.

You are probably right.
I have no partnership relationship with Ubiquiti but they make the Edge lineup difficult to find on their site as well as there is little product in the pipeline also causing some inflation.
I haven't heard any direct info but it certainly is obvious they want to phase it out in favor of the UI lineup with all of the cloud interconnectivity.
It has to be for profitability reasons.
And yes it is not uber-friendly but the GUI has improved and lots of support examples available.
I actually like the Untangle/Arista GUI interface much better but you need to BYOD (device).

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
I actually like the Untangle/Arista GUI interface much better but you need to BYOD (device).

And, of course, there is always pfSense and its derivatives, running this on a SBC (e.g a Raspberry Pi) would be a sufficient low-cost solution for most folks. Untangle seems to have suffered from creeping featurism, not to mention there is now a subscription fee.

Not that I would ever buy a Pi at the current shortage/demand/speculator-induced prices, but there are other SBCs that are more reasonable. You really don't need a lot of CPU horsepower to drive most router software implementations. Slip a couple of decent NICs into a old headless Intel box you have lying around, install FreeBSD or a flavor of Linux and you are a short configuration exercise away from a decently-performing router with capabilities far beyond what is included in most off-the-shelf offerings (which are themselves based on the same technologies). The off-the-shelf products are selling ease-of-use and customer confidence, not so much proprietary technology.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
I haven't heard any direct info but it certainly is obvious they want to phase it out in favor of the UI lineup with all of the cloud interconnectivity.

Yup. And I absolutely refuse to go there, so I don't buy Ubiquiti anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
It has to be for profitability reasons.

No doubt.

Wouldn't surprise me, once they get everybody hooked on their cloud-based solutions, subscription models come next.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
I actually like the Untangle/Arista GUI interface much better but you need to BYOD (device).

I've a spare ERLite-3, so I should be good for a while. When (if?) I'm finally obliged to replace them, I'm not sure which direction I'll go. Netgate, perhaps?

Thanks guys. I tried to find an EdgeRouter from a known vendor but haven't been able to do so yet. I'll keep searching.

My dock has the LAN device inside - I think it appears as a PCIe LAN device to the computer but you probably know better. When I check the router when this issue happens, I only see wifi attached devices; all the wired devices are gone (the two dock and other wired devices). It's weird. I wish there was some sort of log file to indicate what the problem might be, either on the router side or the computer side.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Thanks guys. I tried to find an EdgeRouter from a known vendor but haven't been able to do so yet. I'll keep searching.

Probably not going to happen. They've been out of production since the chip shortage following the advent of the Wu Flu.

The Amazon link to which smschulz pointed you or eBay are probably the only places you'll find them, now.

Too bad, really. Ubiquiti really had a winner with that line of routers. There was a time, not long ago, if you wandered into a venue with any number of network geeks and asked for a router recommendation, the nearly-unanimous response would be "Ubiquiti ERL3."

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
I've a spare ERLite-3, so I should be good for a while.
When (if?) I'm finally obliged to replace them, I'm not sure which direction I'll go.

I am sure you already know but the ERL3 and even 4 I think, have a small USB2 drive inside that runs the OS.
I have fixed a couple by replacing and reimaging them.
The image and procedure isn't the easiest to find but it works!
Saved a couple of otherwise bricked units.
You will have find a small USB and might have to take the plastic off the drive to get it to fit but not impossible.


The value of these routers is pretty high, IMO.
Probably why they want phase out for their own benefit.

Yeah, I was aware of that, smschulz. But, thanks for mentioning it, anyway. Just went out and snagged a copy of the recovery binary and pointers to several reference URLs for the procedures.

I occasionally swap the two ERL-3's I have. When I do that I save a fresh copy of the current config, nuke back to factory defaults the router I'm swapping-in, hook up to its TTY port (uses the same console cable as Cisco kit), and re-load everything from scratch. So I should have everything I need for recovery to a replacement flash drive, except the drive, itself.

Maybe wouldn't be a bad idea to snag a couple to have on-hand.

Heck, maybe I'll snag another ERL-3, put it in service for a week or so to make sure it's GTG, and do the thumb drive replacement procedure on it, just to hedge my bets.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
The value of these routers is pretty high, IMO.
Probably why they want phase out for their own benefit.

Certainly isn't for their customers' benefit