I did 13 trips there and agree with every positive comment made by all of you. They are very good hosts and Shanghai is one of the best cities to stay in. My early trips I recall a sea of bicycles moving through red lights like a wave. My later trips it was all high-end vehicles. There are some VERY rich people in China, they got a taste of Capitalism and fell in love.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:

quote:

Originally posted by Mboroman:
Don't know a bloody thing about China except that it is full of commies.

Ironically, they have a lot more freedom-loving capitalists than we do in the US, not in percentages, but in real numbers......

I appreciate your firsthand knowledge and yes, even I know that not all Chinese are devout communists. I guess I need to clarify my original statement.

The OP and I used to work together and he had been trying for years to get a promotion. Obviously, he finally got it and posted his question. I don't know anything about traveling to China. Having nothing to contribute to that part of the discussion, I simply used that opening line as a bit of humor aimed at the OP so I could then change the subject and congratulate him on his long-awaited success. He would understand but I didn't stop to think that others might not. Mea culpa.

Just think about the effect rich Mainlanders have had on the real estate market in Vancouver, BC. They've driven the prices through the roof. Now try to think of any other "communist" country where their private citizens, not party officials, have so much money that they can drive real estate prices through the roof in a city on another continent.

Mrs. Lee had a grandmother (died a few years ago), who was a Long March vet. Now that's a real old school commie. But you know she had no problem with the rest of her grandkids and great grandkids who got rich by opening businesses. All the successful Mainlanders will cite Deng Xiaoping's addage that "to get rich is glorious." That's sort of all the justification they need, while wrapping themselves in the red flag.

Lord V,
As others had said, Shanghai is a cool place to visit. Very cosmopolitan, lots of influence from all over the world.

Chinese beer is good as their brewing industry was heavily influenced by the Germans that helped to start it.

I recommend going to the Blue Frog while you are there. It is very 'American' in ambiance.

Have a good trip,

quote:

Originally posted by Mustang-PaPa:
Be careful what you bring back!

Eeeeewwwwwwewwwwwe

A colleague of mine just returned from China after helping his family with his aging parents, and while he was there he was not able to get his work VPN to function the whole time he was there for 6 weeks. The time before he went he as able to connect and work emergencies, but this time he couldn't get through. He's an IT pro so my guess is things may be tighter now that they were before. He said as much, indicating that the Govt had tightened the belt since his previous visit. I'm sure he didn't have access to private corporate networks, just public networks and his company phone as a hot spot, so my guess is tunneling through the Chinese IP boundary layer probably depends more on who you know and who you're working for.

Enjoy your stay. The people are friendly and go out of their way to provide hospitality.

Food was excellent, beer was good.

My first and only Octoberfest was celebrated at the Shanghai Marriott Renaissance.

Visit the financial towers if you manage to get a clear day. Excellent view of Shanghai.

I've made 77 trips to PRC in 33 years. Most of the time I was in Shenzhen, but maybe a dozen trips to Shanghai and the nearby environs. Make sure you get out to Hangzhou and see the West Lake dancing waters theater.

Don't talk politics, and ** don't try to out to drink them!**; learn the term "sway-eee" - A polite "I drink as I please". Bring a small gift to your hosts there, especially something that reflects your home area.

They have restaurants there the size of our shopping malls. You get your table number and they send you up an elevator and then you have a not short walk to your table. I went to a dinner at such a place, where Mrs. Lee's mother's former boss, a provincial gov't. official, was hosting us. We had a large private dining room and she brought her driver with her. We got talking about Taiwan, the boss said to go close the door to the room and we had a good chat. Lots of shots of bai jiu in between rants. Eventually, the driver had had too much, so the boss dismissed him and said she'd grab a taxi. LOL. That was a fun one.

Never been there but I do believe I would go to Shanghai before I would go to some cities here in the states.

Get a burner phone and don't bring your corp laptop. Get a basic one to travel with or something without proprietary info on it. You have to realize that any data on your devices will be stolen/copied/exfilled.

quote:

Originally posted by Mboroman:

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:

quote:

Originally posted by Mboroman:
Don't know a bloody thing about China except that it is full of commies.

Ironically, they have a lot more freedom-loving capitalists than we do in the US, not in percentages, but in real numbers......

I appreciate your firsthand knowledge and yes, even I know that not all Chinese are devout communists. I guess I need to clarify my original statement.

The OP and I used to work together and he had been trying for years to get a promotion. Obviously, he finally got it and posted his question. I don't know anything about traveling to China. Having nothing to contribute to that part of the discussion, I simply used that opening line as a bit of humor aimed at the OP so I could then change the subject and congratulate him on his long-awaited success. He would understand but I didn't stop to think that others might not. Mea culpa.

Thanks. There have been a LOT of changes, and yet its more the same than ever.. Lol. Somehow I survived the purge so they had no choice but me...

My brother and his wife went many times associated with a swimming team. They enjoyed the trips and looked forward to the next.

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
Get a burner phone and don't bring your corp laptop. Get a basic one to travel with or something without proprietary info on it. You have to realize that any data on your devices will be stolen/copied/exfilled.

This is absurd and just one of those anti-China tropes that gets repeated often. I've been to China 30-40 times since 2011 all for business, but with an occasional personal side trip. I can't do my job without my company laptop. Also need to have phone(s) with number(s) where people can reach me. I have both a company phone and a personal phone. I've used Chinese SIMs in my personal phone for local service years ago, then more recently setup an extra eSIM for international data roaming, and now finally U.S. carriers are making it a lot easier to travel internationally without high roaming fees.

I can assure that no "foreigner" I've ever met in China uses "burner" phones or laptops to do business, and no one in business info security has ever advised it. My company laptop and company phone have typical corporate security features.


REAL ADVICE:

You need to get WeChat - everyone in China uses it for communication. You will not need to place an actual phone call to anyone, or send SMS text or iMessage. It's all WeChat. WeChat also is a cashless payment system but you can't get a U.S. credit or bank card to work with it, so you need to also get AliPay. Otherwise you will have to pay cash, which more and more places do not accept. Western brand hotels and restaurants/stores that cater to foreigners will accept US credit cards, but most local places will not. If you can get a U.S. credit card that works on Union Pay with a 6-digit PIN code, then that SHOULD work. You will also need DiDi, which is the Chinese equivalent of Uber.

The govt can monitor WeChat and discussion groups will get shut down if they are discussing things the government doesn't like. But usually this is because a troll gets into the group and reports it. Peer-to-peer I've never seen any intervention but I would not consider it "secure". iMessage and other apps are encrypted so there is no concern with those.

Shanghai is one of the most impressive and modern cities in the world. Be sure to see the Bund from a high tower in PuDong. The outdoor rooftop bar/restaurant on top of the Ritz Carlton is a great view. It is crowded and traffic sucks, but you should never try to drive yourself. Watch out for pick-pockets in crowded areas like the PuDong view from the bund, Nanjing shopping street, etc. In general people are very welcome and friendly, but watch out for scams. Common scam is meeting someone on the street who speaks English and wants to "practice" with you. Usually they will try to get you to go to a small local bar or teahouse where they will run up a huge tab and try to get you to pay it.

Educated Chinese know their government lies to them and does unsavory things. They are powerless to do anything about it so they generally don't talk about it much. For the most part they are normal people just looking to have a decent life and family. Taiwan is a bad subject though. For the most part you will not see much government presence, or police, or enforcement of low level stuff like street peddling. China is too damn big with two many people for the government to really have as much influence as people think.

^^^^ Excellent post.

Last time I was there, if I connected to wifi anywhere, I was subject to the "Great Firewall of China." But using my regular Verizon travel plan for my iPhone, I could get onto any of the blocked sites. It's been a little over four years, but I'm sure there are a ton of workarounds. Before WeChat took off, all the local young folks had multiple phones - one for stuff they didn't care about being blocked or monitored and one or more they used for workarounds.

When Mrs. Lee is China without me and she calls via WeChat, the clarity is better than anything using a cell service. Same for WhatsApp in Europe.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:
^^^^ Excellent post.

Last time I was there, if I connected to wifi anywhere, I was subject to the "Great Firewall of China." But using my regular Verizon travel plan for my iPhone, I could get onto any of the blocked sites. It's been a little over four years, but I'm sure there are a ton of workarounds. Before WeChat took off, all the local young folks had multiple phones - one for stuff they didn't care about being blocked or monitored and one or more they used for workarounds.

When Mrs. Lee is China without me and she calls via WeChat, the clarity is better than anything using a cell service. Same for WhatsApp in Europe.

I used various VPN's to see blocked stuff. It's a cat and mouse game with the government breaking the VPN, then the VPN finding a workaround, and back and forth.

Facebook, What's App, and other similar apps are all blocked. Again, that's why you need WeChat for people in China, and you can still use iMessage for people outside China. Google search is blocked so you have to switch to Bing or something that isn't blocked.

Google Translate worked (or used to, haven't been back since 2019) and the camera based visual translation of written Chinese is very useful. The audio translate features are good too.

I have never been to China but my friend has had a few trips. He got advice at the office from others who had gone before him. One of his coworkers said they were a very gracious host. His hosts offered to send female companionship to his room and being young and single he accepted. When the knock on the door came, he estimated that his companionship was around 13-14 years old. I’m not sure how he handled the situation but he told my friend to never accept that offer. Sounds like good advice.