The problem is hind sight is a wonderful thing and it is now obvious that this Card fellow was a few cards short of a full deck.. sorry, I had to say it. But where do you draw the line and who decides it's time to come pick YOU up and take YOU somewhere for YOUR and others safety? And how far away is the next step to just start putting certain folks that meet a profile in box cars and taking them to 'camp'?

Colion Noir gives a good timeline of the events, the differences between red flag and yellow flag laws and why they were not effective in this case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21Ya8FW_uyI

He was picked up and taken somewhere for his safety and the safety of others. I'd say the line was in the right place and reasonable decisions made up to that point. No hindsight, box cars. or camps needed.

quote:

Colion Noir gives a good timeline of the events, the differences between red flag and yellow flag laws and why they were not effective in this case.

That was good. Thanks.
It's clear that Maine (and New York) had all the laws they needed. Executing the laws is another matter.

quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:
The Sandy Hook kid years ago was completely unable to function yet his mother bought him the AR thinking it would give them an activity and have something in common.

PGT "Not quite accurate. It was secured, he killed her first and took the rifle."



PGT- May want to reread my OP on the matter as I don't see anything there that was inaccurate in any way.

Yes, she was shot with a .22 rifle (clearly not secured) she also bought, then he accessed the AR used in the school.

The very concept that giving him experience with firearms of any sort would be a good idea is a mind boggling error in judgement.

My point was that any of these high profile events was preceded by obvious warning signs that were ignored by family, friends and authorities.
Any or all could have and should have made some sort of attempt to intervene in some way. Some of the authorities in both the police and military in New York would seem to be derelict in their duties at the very least, and subject to some sort of discipline and in some cases legal proceedings.

As for the Charleston shooting... one of the facts that is never mentioned by the media is that one of those killed 'always' carried a gun, according to his son .... it was found in his car in the parking lot two days later....

SC law requires one to have the church leadership's permission to be able to carry there.

My wife is a counselor and the stories she tells me of having to navigate the mental health system of our country would make you shake your head. She said that the mentally ill are now so protected that it's more or less impossible to get them committed even if they are showing signs like this guy was doing. All thanks to the left who decided it was "cruel" to people with mental illness.

Did you know that the "Bible" the mental health profession uses; The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) actually listed transgenderism and body dysphoria as a mental illnesses until about 20-25 or so years ago when they were quietly removed?

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
The Sandy Hook kid years ago was completely unable to function yet his mother bought him the AR thinking it would give them an activity and have something in common.

You're indicating the his mother bought the AR 'for' him. I've NEVER heard that until your post. I've searched and I still can't find that anywhere...Got a link to support that claim?

^^^
https://news.yahoo.com/sandy-h...stmas-210859068.html


She bought it for them to go shooting together although he likely couldn’t purchase it himself due to his age. Based on descriptions of his behavior, I doubt he would be able to get a responsible seller to make that purchase, or I would hope not.

In any case, we can go off in the weeds discussing the technicalities of the written language and legal ownership, my point was she facilitated the purchase and allowed him access, and clearly should have known this was a tremendous risk.

When the crazy homeless in California attack someone with a knife, stick, club or other weapon, the lefties never mention removing these types nor wishing to ban them....they just mention how the suspect needs more mental help

The attorneys at her employer make the doctors take annual HIPPA training, but the training doesn't include anything about what to do if a patient is legally unable to own a firearm and talks about owning guns. My friend's wife had no idea who to even call if a patient was hearing voices about committing a mass shooting.
^^^^^^^^
Your average MD knows little about mental health. They may have had a brief rotation, that is all. ALL fifty states have commitment provisions. Florida it is called the Baker Act. Essentially a commitment affidavit is filled out suggesting the person is mentally ill and a danger to self or others. The cops pick them up to be evaluated and they are held for three days during which time they are evaluated by a psychologist. There is a court hearing and depending on the outcome are realeased or sent to a hospital against their will.

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
The Sandy Hook kid years ago was completely unable to function yet his mother bought him the AR thinking it would give them an activity and have something in common.

You're conflating the Sandy Hook school shooter with the Oxford, Michigan school shooter.

The Sandy Hook shooter stole his mother's AR-15. The Oxford shooter's parents were the ones that bought their kid a handgun.

And the MSU shooter:
Lansing — State officials Tuesday identified 43-year-old Anthony McRae, who had a history of mental health issues and was charged with multiple gun-related crimes in 2019, as the believed gunman who killed three people and wounded five others at Michigan State University.

McRae, who was found off-campus after dying of an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound, was identified less than nine hours after police lifted a campus-wide shelter-in-place order following the mass shooting.

Officials with the Ewing Police Department in New Jersey said Tuesday they were told Michigan police found a note in his pocket that indicated a threat to two public schools in their township, where McRae had lived years ago. Michigan State University police officials confirmed a note was found on McRae. Ewing police investigated the threats and determined McRae "had a history of mental health issues."

McRae, whom neighbors in Lansing described as a "hell-raiser" who practiced target shooting out his back door, also had a recent history with firearms. And his father, Michael McRae, 66, told The Detroit News that he had encouraged his son to get rid of his guns.

Anthony McRae was arrested in Lansing and charged in June 2019 with carrying a concealed pistol without a concealed carry permit, according to Ingham County court records obtained Tuesday by The News. The initial charge was a felony that carried a potential penalty of five years in prison, according to the records.

At about 3 a.m. June 7, 2019, an officer encountered Anthony McRae in Lansing where the officer asked him if he had any weapons on him. McRae acknowledged he had a gun but he didn’t have a concealed weapons permit, according to court records. McRae also had a magazine in his right breast pocket, according to the court records.

“He advised the handgun was registered to him,” a court document about the incident said. “He bought it late March at Capital Discount. He was currently trying to obtain a concealed weapons permit."

In October 2019, Ingham County prosecutors added a second charge against McRae: possession of a loaded firearm in a vehicle, a misdemeanor.

That same month, October 2019, McRae agreed to plead guilty to the lesser misdemeanor charge, and prosecutors dismissed the felony charge.

Ingham County Prosecutor John Dewane, who was appointed to his position in December, argued that, even if McRae had been convicted on the original charge, he likely would have avoided jail or prison time because sentencing guidelines for the two charges are similar and would have resulted in a recommendation against incarceration.

Yep, the police, the family and the Ingram County Prosecutor all dropped the ball on this guy and let him plead to,a misdemeanor.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
The Sandy Hook kid years ago was completely unable to function yet his mother bought him the AR thinking it would give them an activity and have something in common.

You're conflating the Sandy Hook school shooter with the Oxford, Michigan school shooter.

The Sandy Hook shooter stole his mother's AR-15. The Oxford shooter's parents were the ones that bought their kid a handgun.

He's not conflating the two. If he's mistaken about the Sandy Hook shooter being gifted the firearm by his mother rather than him stealing it, then that's all it is. A mistake about details.

No one is confusing any other school shooting with Sandy Hook. The only thing comparable is Uvalde, and even that is unique in its own right.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
The Sandy Hook kid years ago was completely unable to function yet his mother bought him the AR thinking it would give them an activity and have something in common.

You're conflating the Sandy Hook school shooter with the Oxford, Michigan school shooter.

The Sandy Hook shooter stole his mother's AR-15. The Oxford shooter's parents were the ones that bought their kid a handgun.

I answered this and a link was provided, three post above yours (11:24 AM yesterday) when someone else questioned this.
Not conflating anything that I'm aware of.

And in today's news, several examples of the same thing in this one article.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/06...-shooting/index.html

Parents that not only could and should have stopped these events, but made a major contribution by facilitating the shooters ability to obtain the weapons, bypassing the clear intent of existing laws.

In the first case in this article, the state gave the parent a big break, exactly the wrong example, by pleading down the charges to misdemeanors when it should have been serious felony conviction and serious jail time.
The parents actions and inaction led directly to this tragedy.

The prosecutors explain away their weakness by blaming strategy in the upcoming shooters trial, one that should be an easy slam dunk.

If only they would enforce existing laws, but it's much easier to blame the weapon.