July 14, 2024, 09:48 PM
MikeinNCV Tail aircraft
I’m watching Bosch series (season 5: ep 3) and in one episode there is a V tailed plane with pods in the ends of the wings. What are those? Fuel, aerodynamics?
Inquiring minds want to know.
"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein
“You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020
“A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker July 14, 2024, 09:50 PM
egregoreProbably wingtip-mounted fuel tanks. Also seen on early jet fighters.
July 14, 2024, 09:53 PM
ailerongas tanks on mine; 20 gallons each side
July 14, 2024, 09:57 PM
nhracecraftLike this beauty!
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July 14, 2024, 10:01 PM
egregorequote:
gas tanks on mine; 20 gallons each side
Are those its
only fuel tanks, or auxiliaries?
That fuel tank placement on a fighter never made sense to me. All that fuel out on the ends of the wings couldn't help its roll rate, something I would think would be kind of important in a dogfight.
July 14, 2024, 10:09 PM
aileronEach tip is 20 gallons auxiliary, left and right main tanks are each 40 gallons so it can carry 120 gallons total if I fill it up, enough for 9 hours of endurance with a 1 hour reserve.
Surprisingly, the roll rate is about the same with the tips full or empty, but this ain't a fighter and full aileron input is rare.
July 14, 2024, 10:30 PM
MikeinNCThanks guys! I knew you would know.
Yeah the plane in the show is a black v tail with the pods. I guess extra fuel would help on a longer trip. Is 40 gals a lot of avgas? How far would it stretch a flight, or is it like a reserve tank?
"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein
“You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020
“A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker July 14, 2024, 10:42 PM
VictimNoMoreUsing aileron’s numbers, the tip tanks add another 3-4 hours endurance (@13 gph fuel burn, which is 120 gallons / 9 hours).
They also consume 240 lbs of useful load, so there is that trade off.
His bladder will dictate the length of the flight, however.
July 14, 2024, 11:15 PM
aileronquote:
Originally posted by VictimNoMore:
Using aileron’s numbers, the tip tanks add another 3-4 hours endurance (@13 gph fuel burn, which is 120 gallons / 9 hours).
They also consume 240 lbs of useful load, so there is that trade off.
His bladder will dictate the length of the flight, however.
The D'shannon tip tank STC adds 200# to the gross weight, mine is now 3,600# max. Plane is 2,174 empty weight so the useful load is a huge 1,426#. With full fuel I can still load 700+# of people and stuff. We're usually only 2 people plus the dog and a couple of suitcases. We have relief tubes plumbed to the two front seats, and with the new digital AP with VNAV my workload has decreased quite a bit.
July 15, 2024, 06:23 AM
VictimNoMoreThat is an impressive setup, aileron.
July 15, 2024, 07:15 AM
ECSquirrelDoesn’t get any better for GA! And the Beech is a much better plane to hand fly than any other traveling piston.
Aileron- that useful load is amazing big for a 35. Is your CG far enough forward that you can use it? My useful load on a 36 is only 1357, but in the summer heat she’s a dog coming off the runway!
July 15, 2024, 08:09 AM
Pipe Smokerquote:
Originally posted by egregore:
quote:
gas tanks on mine; 20 gallons each side
Are those its
only fuel tanks, or auxiliaries?
That fuel tank placement on a fighter never made sense to me. All that fuel out on the ends of the wings couldn't help its roll rate, something I would think would be kind of important in a dogfight.
On fighter aircraft, wing tip tanks can generally be dropped if combat is imminent.
In a mission, wing tip fuel was used first, so the dropped tanks would likely be empty.
Serious about crackers. July 15, 2024, 11:57 AM
aileronquote:
Originally posted by aileron:
quote:
Originally posted by ECSquirrel:
Doesn’t get any better for GA! And the Beech is a much better plane to hand fly than any other traveling piston.
Aileron- that useful load is amazing big for a 35. Is your CG far enough forward that you can use it? My useful load on a 36 is only 1357, but in the summer heat she’s a dog coming off the runway!
It's a pretty light 35; as a homebuilder I am fanatical about weight. Empty CG is 79.25. This was an actual "on the scales" W&B, as it had been painted and a panel - not to mention 27 years ago since the last real weighing. I have a Lycon IO-550 being built that should take care of any high DA dogginess - Lycon is promising at least 330HP, 340 more likely. The CG shifts aft as fuel is burned off, so although I'd prefer to fly it at the aft limit, I need to start out roughly in the middle of the box to ensure it's not tail heavy at landing.
My 35 has a factory lead weight, about 30#, on the chin under the air filter. I'm hoping the 550 will be a little heavier than the 520, and I can carve on the lead weight in the nose.
July 15, 2024, 12:10 PM
V-Tailquote:
Originally posted by MikeinNC:
Thanks guys! I knew you would know.
Yeah the plane in the show is a black v tail with the pods. I guess extra fuel would help on a longer trip. Is 40 gals a lot of avgas? How far would it stretch a flight, or is it like a reserve tank?
My v-tail burned 15.5 gallons / hour at a cruise setting of 75% engine power, so 40 gallons would add just over 2.5 hours of cruising time, which would be an additional 500 miles in a no-wind situation. Headwind or tailwind would decrease or increase that range.
הרחפת שלי מלאה בצלופחים July 15, 2024, 12:39 PM
ECSquirrelquote:
Originally posted by aileron:
It's a pretty light 35; as a homebuilder I am fanatical about weight. Empty CG is 79.25. This was an actual "on the scales" W&B, as it had been painted and a panel - not to mention 27 years ago since the last real weighing. I have a Lycon IO-550 being built that should take care of any high DA dogginess - Lycon is promising at least 330HP, 340 more likely. The CG shifts aft as fuel is burned off, so although I'd prefer to fly it at the aft limit, I need to start out roughly in the middle of the box to ensure it's not tail heavy at landing.
My 35 has a factory lead weight, about 30#, on the chin under the air filter. I'm hoping the 550 will be a little heavier than the 520, and I can carve on the lead weight in the nose.
I've flown as a passenger in an IO550 powered S35. Especially with the weight of your bird, you're going to have an amazing plane when you're done. Very nice panel too. I see your ipad to the right- I mounted a garmin portable to the right of a 750 because I can't trust an ipad in the TX heat. Great Setup!
I'm turbonormalized, so I have an extra 70 lbs (or something like that?) added to the engine compartment. I have never had a problem with aft cg- I generally need to add some weight in the baggage compartment to keep the plane inside the CG envelope, especially with 2 up front and no one in the back. I also agree with weighing the plane- we did the same thing after an avionics install.
The TN system makes the plane a dog climbing out in the heat. I'll only see 7-900 FPM climb off the runway when I'm heavy, but when she gets going I see 180 kts true at 10k ft burning 15.5 GPH (2300 RPM). 195 KTAS at 17k on the same fuel burn. It's an amazing system.
July 15, 2024, 08:38 PM
Hamden106quote:
Originally posted by VictimNoMore:
Using aileron’s numbers, the tip tanks add another 3-4 hours endurance (@13 gph fuel burn, which is 120 gallons / 9 hours).
They also consume 240 lbs of useful load, so there is that trade off.
His bladder will dictate the length of the flight, however.
Somewhere in my stuff I have a pilot relief tube obtained from aircraft boneyard in the late 50s
SIGnature
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July 16, 2024, 09:41 AM
slosigquote:
Originally posted by aileron:
Each tip is 20 gallons auxiliary, left and right main tanks are each 40 gallons so it can carry 120 gallons total if I fill it up, enough for 9 hours of endurance with a 1 hour reserve.
Surprisingly, the roll rate is about the same with the tips full or empty, but this ain't a fighter and full aileron input is rare.
The Bonanza family aren’t fighters, and most of them aren’t aerobatic, but they sure roll nice and smooth. Plenty of control authority and beautiful harmony.