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Picture of OttoSig
posted
I'm looking at used F350/3500 size trucks.

Year range is 2015-2021 or there abouts.

Are there any great advantages to one engine over the other? Cummins / Duramax / Power stoke / Etc.





11 years to retirement! Just waiting!
 
Posts: 6147 | Location: Maryland | Registered: August 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Savor the limelight
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Why?

It’s a serious question because if you don’t have a specific need for a diesel truck, it’s a bad idea. I say this as an owner of a 2015 F350 with 158,000 miles.
 
Posts: 10726 | Location: SWFL | Registered: October 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of OttoSig
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quote:
Why?

I want to be able to pull a larger travel trailer or slide in. That's the reason for the larger truck.

The reason for the diesel? Better fuel mileage, longer lasting engine. More torque for hauling.

Is there a reason you say its a bad idea?





11 years to retirement! Just waiting!
 
Posts: 6147 | Location: Maryland | Registered: August 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Three Generations
of Service
Picture of PHPaul
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quote:
Originally posted by OttoSig:
quote:
Why?


Is there a reason you say its a bad idea?


Significantly higher initial investment.

Much higher maintenance costs.

Multiple problems with mandated Tier III/IV pollution controls.

Mileage advantage negated by loss of MPG due to above, high price of fuel.

Modern gas rigs will haul anything a diesel will and are cheaper to buy and maintain. You'll spend a little more on fuel when you're actually towing, but the rest of the time it's a wash or even a small advantage to the gassers.




Be careful when following the masses. Sometimes the M is silent.
 
Posts: 15128 | Location: Downeast Maine | Registered: March 10, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Staring back
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Back when diesel was 49 cents/gallon there was a real good reason to buy one. Nowadays, other than longevity of the engine, there isn't much benefit unless you need to tow a house.

F250 Powerstroke here.


________________________________________________________
"Great danger lies in the notion that we can reason with evil." Doug Patton.
 
Posts: 19869 | Location: Montana | Registered: November 01, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of OttoSig
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quote:
Originally posted by PHPaul:
quote:
Originally posted by OttoSig:
quote:
Why?


Is there a reason you say its a bad idea?


Significantly higher initial investment.

Much higher maintenance costs.

Multiple problems with mandated Tier III/IV pollution controls.

Mileage advantage negated by loss of MPG due to above, high price of fuel.

Modern gas rigs will haul anything a diesel will and are cheaper to buy and maintain. You'll spend a little more on fuel when you're actually towing, but the rest of the time it's a wash or even a small advantage to the gassers.


SO if buying used with a gas engine, do I want to stay considerably lower on the miles than I would a comparable Diesel engine? This is my understanding as the life of a diesel engine far exceeds a gas equivalent.

Maybe 40K or less I'm assuming





11 years to retirement! Just waiting!
 
Posts: 6147 | Location: Maryland | Registered: August 10, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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How big a travel trailer?

I towed a 10,000lb travel trailer, and currently tow a 14,500lb 5th wheel or a 10,000lb boat. For a Ford, you’ll want a 2017 or newer as the lighter aluminum body allows for increased payload which allows for more kingpin weight. I’m on the cusp of the limits with my 2015. The 2017s and newer have 4” more legroom in the back which my now 13, 16, and 17 year olds would really appreciate.

The bad:
Fuel economy sucks! I took my 17 year old to tour UF in Gainesville on Thursday, then to Tallahassee to tour FSU, then home. I averaged 14.1 mpg @ 80mph. That was with the truck empty, not running the air, in Florida where there aren’t any hills. That’s what I get around town as well. I’ve got at least 60,000 miles towing on the truck. The mileage was between 8.5 mpg and 12 mpg. The 12 was in the Keys @ 50mph. I’ve spent more in fuel than the truck cost me brand new.

The reason is the emissions control systems. Specifically, the DPF (diesel particular filter) which literally burns fuel to get hot enough to turn the soot it collects into fine ash. I’ll get 17mpg up until the computer decides to clean the DPF and drags down my mpg to 14 once the cycle finishes. Short trips and idling, like I do twice a day at schools picking up my kids, clog the DPF sooner than driving down the freeway. And my DPF filter needs to be replaced. The part alone is $4,500.

So delete it, right? Except the EPA cracked down hard on that. The stuff you can buy online, comes from China. I’ll buy a pair of $35 cheap Chinese radios, but I’m not throwing a Chinese tune on my truck. Nobody in the states is doing this anymore. You might be able to get it done in Canada.

To add insult to injury, diesel cost a dollar more per gallon than gas. The oil change is 13 quarts. The fuel filters are $70 every 22,500 miles. DEF is know $10 for 2.5 gallons every 1,000 miles or so.

Have you priced tires? About $275 each and I’m on my 5th set. Michelin, Goodyear, Toyo, Goodyear, Continental, and I have a new set of Goodyear DuraTracs set to go on my spare set of wheels.

Also, I think my transmission is going. I’ve replaced the fluid and filter twice, but it’s shifting weird and seems to be getting worse.

My opinion is that if you aren’t going to use it strictly for highway driving or as a dedicated tow vehicle for well over 10,000lbs, it’s a bad idea.

I bought mine because at the time, the gas trucks weren’t rated to tow what I wanted to tow. They are now with the right motor like the 7.3 liter Ford. It’s the first vehicle I bought where I paid attention to the numbers (payload, GVWR, GCVWR, axle ratings, etc.).
 
Posts: 10726 | Location: SWFL | Registered: October 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Three Generations
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Picture of PHPaul
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by OttoSig:

SO if buying used with a gas engine, do I want to stay considerably lower on the miles than I would a comparable Diesel engine? This is my understanding as the life of a diesel engine far exceeds a gas equivalent.

Maybe 40K or less I'm assuming


I don't know that I'd set the bar that low, especially given the absolutely insane prices on used trucks these days. With modern engines, I wouldn't have a problem buying an 80,000 mile truck for the right price.




Be careful when following the masses. Sometimes the M is silent.
 
Posts: 15128 | Location: Downeast Maine | Registered: March 10, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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ONE of the reasons I wish it was 1990 again; I might have picket up a Cummins Ram at a reasonable buy-in and operating cost... NOW, no-way I'll every be able to afford one

A dude I know, has a pretty good angle, he just starts saving from day-1; says a $5-10k fuel system rebuild in only a matter of when (Not if), it's just part of his budget
 
Posts: 494 | Location: Fort Couch (VA) | Registered: December 16, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'll just leave this here …







 
Posts: 27740 | Location: Johnson City/Elizabethton, TN | Registered: April 28, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Are they more expensive, yes. And I hate the DEF garbage.
I have a 2016 Duramax I bought new. I put a Fass lift pump on it.
I have changed the oil every 5000, and the tranny fluid along with transfer case and rear end every 2 years.
I change the Fass filters every year. I get 20mpg on interstate 64. It drops to 14 around town.
Trailered my grandson's Ramcharger to Carsile a year ago. Got about 13mpg.
Its not a daily driver. And I also treat all the fuel.
So that's my experience with the Duramax.


 
Posts: 1100 | Location: Toano, Va.  | Registered: January 11, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
blame canada
Picture of AKSuperDually
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That's a broad year range.

There are a lot of diesels from the various makes to avoid in those years.

As stated, if you don't need one...then money better be no factor. Buying someone else's used diesel is a crap shoot. Regardless of year or make, if they didn't exceed the minimum maintenance schedule recommended...and I need, EXCEED it not just meet it, then I'd walk at anything over 30K miles. On top of avoiding bad years.

Currently I own two diesels. A 2000 8.3ISC (cummins)and a 2016 6.7L (ford). Between the two I spent 20 grand in repairs in 2023 on the engines. I spent another 8 grand in preventative maintenance and service (oil, filters, etc).

If you don't need a diesel, think hard about why you want one. My 2016 has had the DEF system replaced twice, and its throwing codes again. It has 70K miles on it.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The trouble with our Liberal friends...is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." Ronald Reagan, 1964
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. It doesn't matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon will just take a shit on the board, strut around knocking over all the pieces and act like it won.. and in some cases it will insult you at the same time." DevlDogs55, 2014 Big Grin
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Posts: 13929 | Location: On the mouth of the great Kenai River | Registered: June 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If you aren’t going to drive it into the ground, the higher initial cost of a diesel is pretty much moot, because you will get it back when you sell it or trade it in. Diesel trucks have significantly higher resale value, despite the additional maintenance etc. Even with the additional emissions related stuff, for me I wouldn’t own a 3/4 or 1 ton truck that wasn’t a diesel. I’d likely choose a diesel half ton truck or SUV if it was an option as well. I like diesels, know how to take care of them and get significantly better fuel economy with diesels in the type of driving I do.

Gasoline engines nowadays are extremely capable, and last a long, long time. If you don’t mind getting lower fuel economy, you can definitely get by with a gas engine unless you’re only towing the heaviest of loads all the time. But diesels are still very desirable for good reason.




“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”
 
Posts: 5538 | Location: Upstate NY | Registered: February 28, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I was in this process a couple of years ago. I needed the towing capacity and the torque a turbo diesel engine produces is what I determined would best do the job. However, there are complications like DEF and emissions equipment like the regeneration system that while keeping the emissions down, affect negatively the reliability and cost of operation.

I had a significantly higher budget for my truck than I spent. What I mean by that is I wanted to avoid the emissions equipment and diesel particulate fluid, so I bought an older Duramax mated to the Allison 6 speed transmission. That generation is known as the LBZ Duramax. It was only available from 06 to mid 07. I spent a few thousand bringing the truck into proper maintenance and now have a reliable truck with very long legs when towing. Mine is an 06 Sierra. I initially figured I’d use it for this period I’m towing heavy and then sell it. But I like the torque and power.



You’re a lying dog-faced pony soldier
 
Posts: 29506 | Location: Highland, Ut. | Registered: May 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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2006.5 6.6l Duramax LBZ here (Chevy Silverado 2500HD). 125k trouble free miles. I have a 5th wheel toy hauler that is 10k lbs. empty. the truck also did daily driver duties until I retired few years back, now it just gets an occasional drive. it does have a 10qt. oil pan but does not burn oil. no DEF system. if you tow heavy you will go thru tires faster than a smaller truck. its by far the most reliable truck I have ever had. best mileage while empty is 22-23mpg, while towing heavy it gets 12.5mpg. diesels like the highway and like to be warm so driving across the southern states is worry free for me.
 
Posts: 152 | Location: Florida | Registered: July 07, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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2011 Ram dually 3500 Laramie here, Its a 6.7 that is very capable, will pull anything you can hook up to it or slide in the back. 6 to 12 mpg when towing, its got no kitty and or def.this is my 7th Cummins rig. The 3500 series has the best running gear under them and huge brakes and the exhaust brake is unbelievable how well it works. A great truck!
 
Posts: 445 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: January 11, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I do a lot of towing out here on the ranch, hauling tractors, and we haul our water.

I looked at diesels initially, but as stated above, I just didn't need the extra headache of repairs and their costs. I ended up with a 2013 F250, with the 6.2 liter gas engine. Got it just as it was approaching 200k miles. These newer engines will run a long time if taken care of with oil changes, and regular maintenance.

For what you are wanting to do, I would seriously consider a gas engine. Towing a trailer, or a camper is easily capable with a gasser, and in the long run, a lot cheaper.

Hope that helps.


Mike


You can run, but you cannot hide.

If you won't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
 
Posts: 4922 | Location: Southern Colorado | Registered: January 01, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I wasn’t going to chime in since most commenters here seem so anti diesel but…

I’ve owned diesels for more than 40 years and during that time I’ve probably owned 30 different vehicles and machinery (construction owner ).

Do diesels cost more? Yes, but as pointed out you’ll get it back on resale.

Do diesels cost more to maintain? Yes, no question about it.

Is the Def issues really an issue? No, most, if not all those issues are covered under extended manufacturers warranties. As an example, my 2016 F-350 SRW CC LWB with 90K on it threw a code 2 weeks ago. When I pulled the code it was the def pump. Took it to the dealer and it was completely replaced under warranty. A similar thing happened to me in 2020 when I drove to Alaska with our truck camper. A check engine light came on as we crossed into Alaska from Canada in the middle of no freakin where. Checked the code and it was a def injector. Drove to Fairbanks (without issue) and the dealer replaced it free of charge.

If you live in a state where the emissions aren’t checked like Texas, most guys down there do a delete and they run like scalded dogs but that’s up to you.

The diesel truck will outpull a gas engine by a long stretch. As said above if you’re pulling over 10K the diesel will definitely be a more enjoyable drive. Another caveat is that diesels don’t do well with repeated short trips. If you want one to drive around town you will have issues. If you get one to drive longer distances then you’ll enjoy it. My wife actually loves to drive ours.

If I may suggest…. Try and find an F-350 SRW over an F-250. The reason is that the suspension is beefier and depending on the year so is the transmission. They are not as common but worth the effort.


------------------
Eddie

Our Founding Fathers were men who understood that the right thing is not necessarily the written thing. -kkina
 
Posts: 6269 | Location: In transit | Registered: February 19, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My observation, based on owning several diesel and gasoline powered trucks over many years: it appears a modern pickup gas engine, properly cared for, will likely last longer than the rest of the truck. I just traded in a 140k mile 2008 Silverado 2500 with a 6L gas engine, partially because I was putting it in the shop every month for electrical repairs to the various doodads it was equipped with. The engine ran like new. Newer trucks have a lot more electronic doodads, many government mandated.
 
Posts: 26788 | Location: Jerkwater, Texas | Registered: January 30, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Turbo Direct Injection Gas Engines are as good or better than diesels for most uses. Lighter, simpler emissions systems, good fuel economy, good low end torque, etc.

For anything but trucks that NEED the towing capacity of a modern diesel, gas is a better option.

Plus CARB is making medium sized diesels essentially illegal for 2025, and EPA is soon to follow...
 
Posts: 4687 | Location: Indiana | Registered: December 28, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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