I had a long term tenant that operated a garden center/deli in a building I own. All good for about 15 years and then he hit a tough stretch and closed in Dec. Kept the building for Jan and Feb and was $4200 rent in arrears.

Just walked out leaving all business equipment including 3 reach in coolers approx 5 years old. Place is a mess but not damaged. I've got property listed for sale with a commercial broker. I got a call from a leasing company saying the equip is theirs and they want it back. I know nothing about any deal and the building is closed and locked up tight. How accommodating do I have to be? I'd planned on selling equip to try and recover some back rent or else use it as a deal sweetener if appropriate.

Can I be forced to open up the building to let them remove equipment? They made no deal with me and my thoughts are they gave credit to a defaulter and tough noogies, all part of doing business. My plan is to slowplay, they didn't even have the business address right. I hope if I'm uncooperative they may go away and my experience is used equip sells cheap at auction so how hard will they try.

What do you think, is possession 9/10ths of the law? I know putting business in a public forum is bad business but I'm playing the odds of staying anonymous and I'm being truthful so whatever happens happens.

If it were me I would send them a bill for storage fees and then put a lien on the equipment if they didn’t pay.

I’m not an attorney, but my guess would be that you do not have clear title to pass to a buyer.

You need to speak to an attorney in your area.

If the letter is not return receipt or anything, and addressed to the wrong address you could play dumb and pretend you didn't get it, but that would be unethical.

But, if the leasing company produces a contract that shows the coolers are theirs, I would believe you have to give them back. I would ask for proof. Also the leasing company if big enough, will have a lawyer on their payroll and can cost you lots of $$$$$.

One presumes that if you're renting-out or leasing-out commercial properties you have a lawyer. If you don't, ISTM you should have.

IANAL, but the equipment in question is the property of the lessor, just as your building is your property. ISTM selling their property would be theft by conversion.

In any event: ISTM your trying to recoup some of your losses by incurring loss on somebody else would be unethical, at the very least.

If it’s their stuff why not let them have it back?

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

If the letter is not return receipt

What letter are you referring to?

I went back and re-read the original post carefully; I did not see any mention of a letter.

It might be there, but if so, I missed it.

You are not a party to any agreement between your former tennant and that leasing company. It's not your job to mediate any dispute. You don't know the legitimate owner of any equipment. It is not your job to do anyhing with. What if you let the leasing company come in and take it only to have the former tennant or someone else come looking for their equipment ?What if the leasing company damages your building when they are there ?The only way I would ever let them in is if they get a court order telling me to let them in and exactly what they can take. States are different as to what constitutes abandonment, how long, what value, attempts to contact the owner if known. If I was selling the building I would
disclose that I dont know who owns it, that is the truth.

I don't know enough about this type of law to answer whether or not you have an obligation to return the coolers to the leasing company.

However, if you do return the coolers, I suggest you get a written indemnification for claims made by the tenant, or any other third party, for the coolers.

Have they shown any proof other than just saying our stuff is in there.

The leasing company should have detailed records with serial numbers and the like.
I would ask for very specific records from them and ask to see all original copies before moving forward.

You may want to use an attorney to see if they filed a UCC-1 financing statement and perfected their security interest.

Should have just said "what coolers, tenant took everything with him."

I don’t know who owns the coolers, but I know enough to say that someone certainly does (I know, marvelous grasp on the obvious!). My point is that this area of the law/security is clear. There is an actual answer to this, not just armchair lawyer opinions on what they think makes sense. If your wrong, you could buy the problem.

As others mentioned the leasing company should have contracts with the tenant listing the property with serial numbers, etc. They have the right to repossess it. Just like a bank getting a car back if the buyer stops making payments. Your financial claim against the tenant is separate.

Just call your lawyer. Like much of this stuff, it probably varies from state to state.
The lawyer may have some ideas to protect you if you can recover some part of rent out of any of the items left behind.
Also the people removing items should be properly insured, etc.
Pay one for an hour of their time and see where it goes from there.

quote:

Originally posted by Fundman:
As others mentioned the leasing company should have contracts with the tenant listing the property with serial numbers, etc. They have the right to repossess it. Just like a bank getting a car back if the buyer stops making payments. Your financial claim against the tenant is separate.

Yep.

You made an assumption on incomplete information (that the property left was owned by the entity that owed you money) but now you know differently.

You can (and should) ask them for proofs of their assertion. But then, it's theirs and not yours.

Leasing companies have good attorneys. You don't want to add legal bills to your plate.

Thanks for the replies. If they produce a list with serial #s and a contract I'll let them retrieve it, provided I'm well compensated for my time and they provide proof of insurance and a deposit to ensure no damage while removing. I'd say odds are 50/50 they do not pursue as rule of thumb on liquidating used refrig equip is a dime on the dollar but being a leasing co it may be worth more to them.

When I worked at Harbor Wholesale, I managed a service department as well as the DC. We had a team that installed coolers, coffee equipment, etc. part of the agreement that we signed with the lessor is that the equipment is, and always will be property of Harbor Wholesale.
More than once we had a situation the same as yours. We would contact the property owner and they would want to keep the equipment to sell, same as you described.
I would explain that it is not the lessor’s property or the landlord’s.
Usually a call to the County Sheriff, explanation of situation, Sheriff making a call, and the next day we would pick up our equipment. (This was in Washington State, so the laws may be entirely different where you are).

quote:

Originally posted by doublesharp:
Thanks for the replies. If they produce a list with serial #s and a contract I'll let them retrieve it, provided I'm well compensated for my time and they provide proof of insurance and a deposit to ensure no damage while removing. I'd say odds are 50/50 they do not pursue as rule of thumb on liquidating used refrig equip is a dime on the dollar but being a leasing co it may be worth more to them.

Serial numbers I would have most likely had, but not always. Sometimes just a description if the make and model of equipment. Contract, definitely had. Insurance, check.
Compensation for your time, not a chance.
In Washington, you would be in possession of something you don’t own, with the rightful owner asking for it to be returned. That would be a criminal offense. Hence my last post of simply contacting the County Sheriff.

Also, I am failing to understand why you feel entitled to something you know you don’t rightfully own? You don’t buy it, lease it, and are probably only “storing it” because the rightful owners probably didn’t know the deli closed until the deli owner defaulted in the lease.

Keeping possession of something you don’t own, when the rightful owner asks for it to be returned, shows a lack of ethics and integrity.

As a landlord I would do the following.

1. Get an eviction order on the tenant.

Go to court, It's cheap if the tenant doesn't appear and fight and it gives your possession and a judgment in unpaid rent.

2. Tell the leasing co wanting to get the equipment to get an order from the court to prove it is theirs.

Just because they have a lien paperwork does not mean your tenant does not have a release.


In MA there are requirements of disposing of tenants property. If you do it improperly all sides could come after you. The tenant, the leasing company.

If you are not sure of the rules in your state hire a lawyer that specializes in landlord/tenant law. A small legal bill now sure beats a large problem later.

I had a company threaten to come after me after I disposed of a leased piece of equipment. I had followed the rules and told them my paperwork was in order and they could tell it to the judge.

I never heard back.

They have had near 5 months since place closed and I'm confident he was in arrears on payments. They should have dealt with equip before tenant vacated end of Feb. It's not a big deal to me one way or the other but I'm damned sure not going to voluntarily expend time and energy w/out compensation. Wouldn't be prudent.