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If you are a DVM, please step in. Injury question. UPDATED PAGE 2

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November 04, 2017, 06:30 PM
BB61
If you are a DVM, please step in. Injury question. UPDATED PAGE 2
I was out with my cousin on the family farm this morning when his dog fell. His large animal vet took an X-ray and is referring him to a specialist on Monday. The vet seemed nervous. Any thoughts as to long term recovery if any? This is a male Labrador Retriever that fell. It is his rear leg too. Please click on the picture to enlarge it. THANKS!

[IMG:left] [/IMG]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BB61,


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November 04, 2017, 08:17 PM
slabsides45
Vet here. Looks like a reasonably transverse fracture, and if I were their vet I would repair that with cross pinning of the distal fragment. The repair itself should be simple enough to perform, though he'll drop a bit of coin on this surgery....

I do have a couple questions, however. How old is the dog? How exactly did this happen?

Generally, dogs don't just fall and break a leg without being kicked (farm animals come to mind) or falling off a height of some sort. When they DO break a leg just falling down, I get concerned that there is some type of pathology causing the weakened bone. There's an axiom that's used by vets that "away from the elbow and toward the knee" is where cancer will be found. In other words, "toward the knee" means distal femur or proximal tibia/fibula. So that would fit, but upon zooming in on it, I don't see any of the telltale "moth eaten" appearance that neoplastic bone usually demonstrates.

If this is a young dog who was out chasing cows, I'd wager he/she got kicked just right and broke it. That being the case, cross pin that sucker, or put a bone plate on it, and it'll heal like buttah.





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"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving."
-Dr. Adrian Rogers
November 04, 2017, 08:44 PM
BB61
We were out on the farm. I was following in my truck and he was in the first truck’s bed. He got so excited he fell-out and did a somersault in the process. Fortunately, the truck he was in was going slow and we were in a wet field. IIRC, he is just over two years old. What was so sad is that this dog doesn’t know me. But, he saw me running up and when I got there and started holding him, he let me know he was hurting. I just held him and tried to tell him it was OK until my cousin got to us and then we lifted him into the truck (cab this time) and went back to the farm and called his large animal vet. I’m betting $1,200? Does that sound high or low for the cost? I was going to send him some coin as he was taking me out as the farm I typically hunt on had cattle put in last week and I dont’ like hunting around animals. Period.

Lesson learned. I have a shell on my truck but I don’t always have the pet porter strapped down. After today, I’m going to double check everything when I travel with my dog.



THANKS for replying!!! My cousin’s daughters were there and it was hard on them too.


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November 04, 2017, 09:00 PM
Deqlyn
Fingers crossed for quick recovery.



What man is a man that does not make the world better. -Balian of Ibelin

Only boring people get bored. - Ruth Burke
November 04, 2017, 09:14 PM
slabsides45
Ok, that description matches what I'm seeing in the radiograph.

Cost depends a great deal on the region. Generally, more urban areas are more costly, rural areas less so. Also, the level of experience of the vet will dictate cost (i.e., if they go to that specialist, they'll pay about 50% more than a generalist, as a loose guess). I'm in Mississippi, and some of my prices would make a vet in the Northeast choke on their caviar, but even around here any kind of bone surgery is $1,250 to $5,000, depending on severity. For a couple of pins like in the example xray I posted, I would bill around $1,200 to 1,600 depending on how long it takes me to do the surgery (staff and anesthesia costs go on a per minute basis). If I sent them up to the specialists in Memphis, same repair and same dog, they'd be a minimum of $3,500, but they have those special extra letters after their DVM, along with the student loans and super secret squirrel surgical tools that cost a kackagillion bucks, so that gets wrapped into the cost. Hope that helps, and hope that pooch gets to feeling better soon. Those hurt like crazy, but generally after the bone is stabilized, the dogs will heal within 6 or 8 weeks. BE SURE TO CONFINE HIM!!!!


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"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving."
-Dr. Adrian Rogers
November 04, 2017, 09:47 PM
Rey HRH
I cringed. sorry to hear about the dog.



"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.
November 04, 2017, 09:48 PM
doublesharp
Thanks slabsides for your explanations. I wish you were closer. Smile

Best wishes for the pooch.

I'd like to pitch in to help with the vet bill.


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God spelled backwards is dog
November 04, 2017, 10:38 PM
Hamden106
My Dad was a Vet. I was the main picture taker. I recall a couple breaks like that. Dad pinned them like Dr Slabsides describes. I was often the main poop scooper and surgical asst. through my (unrelated) college. Dad was old school vet, graduated 1940 I think. Dad worked for the govt (Army Capt) until about 1947. Then private practice until the 70s. The last 10-12 years of work was back to the govt as DVM USDA APHIS MPIP



SIGnature
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November 04, 2017, 10:44 PM
41
Poor dog. Frown

Looks like Slabsides didn't include the costs of the new fly fishing tackle. Wink


41
November 04, 2017, 10:45 PM
slabsides45
quote:
Originally posted by Hamden106:
My Dad was a Vet. I was the main picture taker. I recall a couple breaks like that. Dad pinned them like Dr Slabsides describes. I was often the main poop scooper and surgical asst. through my (unrelated) college. Dad was old school vet, graduated 1940 I think. Dad worked for the govt (Army Capt) until about 1947. Then private practice until the 70s. The last 10-12 years of work was back to the govt as DVM USDA APHIS MPIP


Those vets don't get a fraction of the credit they deserve. Essentially, our entire food safety network rests on their shoulders.


________________________________________________

"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving."
-Dr. Adrian Rogers
November 04, 2017, 10:46 PM
slabsides45
quote:
Originally posted by 41:
Poor dog. Frown

Looks like Slabsides didn't include the costs of the new fly fishing tackle. Wink


Yikes, I forgot! That's gonna bump your numbers significantly, so be sure whatever vet you choose HATES fly fishing. Razz


________________________________________________

"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving."
-Dr. Adrian Rogers
November 04, 2017, 11:00 PM
BB61
THANKS Slabsides and to everyone else for the good wishes and advice!!!


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November 04, 2017, 11:07 PM
kingfish007
Sorry it happen to the dog. Same thing happen to my GSD last year. She was jumping into the truck bed, lost her footing, fell backward, and broke her left hind leg ankle. Cost me $8k total for the whole ordeal. $5k for surgery and about $3k for after care.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: kingfish007,
November 04, 2017, 11:20 PM
Ed Fowler
Cost for very similar break and surgery in my home town and favorite vet was $750 including follow up care. Naturally you could find a more expensive vet in town.
November 05, 2017, 12:39 AM
BB61
Slabsides pointed out the potential cost differentials. My cousin lives in Utah. I hope he gets the Wyoming price and NOT the Texas price. Eek


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November 05, 2017, 04:42 AM
ASKSmith
Not a vet. Do you have an veterinary schools close? It might be worth a call to see if they would be interested in handling the surgery. The only downfall is a student would be performing, but under the watchful eye a trained doc, but it would be considerably less. (Slabsides are there things I am unaware of going this route? I have friends who have done this with excellent results).

I was given a purebred 4m/o Rottweiler, who had lost a fight with a cat when he was 8 weeks old. His eye was scratched very severely, and they tried the antibiotic route to no avail. When I got him, his eye was pretty gnarly, very swollen, and the only option the docs (specialists) had given me was surgical removal. It's been awhile, but the quoted bill was ~$1,500 but included a prosthetic eyeball. I took him to a local vet who charged me $75. He removed his eye, cut his eyelids, and stitched them shut. Once healed, he just looked like he was winking all the time. Awesome dog. So shop around, get some estimates.

Good luck with your pooch, please update us with his recovery.


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I apologize now...
November 05, 2017, 03:14 PM
slabsides45
It never hurts to ask around for price quotes, and as long as you're comparing apples to apples, that can save you some real $$. Just be sure the higher option isn't using inhalant gas anesthesia and the cheaper one using an injection to knock them out, for example. The cheaper guy usually won't tell you that, and most won't know to ask about it. As my anesthesiology friends like to remind gp's all the time, the fact that the dog woke up after the surgery doesn't mean you did a good job. Other things that add to the cost (but have definite value, and won't be done by the less costly option in most cases) are pre-operative blood testing, IV fluids, an epidural anesthetic pre operatively, etc. Get an itemized estimate, and I will gladly help you sort it out.

Some vet schools have taken in certain obscure cases in the past to get experience for their resident surgeons or medicine folks. Due to the financial well drying up, most of this has stopped and they're generally pricing things at or above some of the local specialists (having to pay their own way in a stagnant economy). The cost of the call to the vet school is negligible, so by all means, reach out and see if they have an option for that.

Hope it works out well for you, and that the Lab is back on his game soon.


________________________________________________

"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving."
-Dr. Adrian Rogers
November 05, 2017, 03:17 PM
Gustofer
quote:
Originally posted by slabsides45:
As my anesthesiology friends like to remind gp's all the time, the fact that the dog woke up after the surgery doesn't mean you did a good job.

Yeah, but it's always a big plus. Big Grin


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"Great danger lies in the notion that we can reason with evil." Doug Patton.
November 05, 2017, 03:52 PM
slabsides45
Haha, it does beat a sharp stick in the eye, Gustofer. Smile


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"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving."
-Dr. Adrian Rogers
November 05, 2017, 05:55 PM
BB61
I’ll update everyone tomorrow with where we are. Thanks again.


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