this pic is for WASH DC area



diff geographical areas have various "locality pay" adjustments to base GS rates. Wash DC area is 28% above base rate

Los Angles locality pay is 30.6% above base
New York is 32%
Indianapolis is 16%

other areas at:

http://www.fedweek.com/news/pay-tables

or

http://www.fedweek.com/2018-gs-locality-pay-tables/

Not only are they over paid, there are a BUNCH of them that do nothing to earn it.

We have a neighbor lady, nice lady buy not all that bright. She retired from the DOD as a GS12.

Her "duties" were to pass out documents in circulation, and tend to the senior officers' calendars, pick up their laundry, etc.

Basically, a personal servant.

Yep. Way too many of them. At the Rocket Ranch, there are numerous HUGE parking lots that are all reserved parking spots. Thing is, only GS 15's get them there. One lady was hired years ago as a secretary. Due to years of service, she's now a GS 15. She keeps getting assigned to the newer branch chiefs as they're the 'low man on the totem pole'. She's a GS 15 and it's widely known that if she's assigned to you, you have to hire a contractor to do her job as all she wants to do is arrange lunches for the other ladies in her social circle.
But each one of those GS 15's also need a multiplier. Easily double it, if not triple. Not just their salary. Just about every GS 15 gets an 'admin assistant', office space, IT support, plus their benefits and pensions. Their medical plan isn't super great, but they do get free use (them and their immediate family) of the on site clinic. Lot of other benefits they get.

Paraphrasing Orwell in Animal Farm, all animals are equal, but government animals are more equal.

I didn't see the pay grade for a GLG20

quote:

Originally posted by Elk Hunter:
Not only are they over paid, there are a BUNCH of them that do nothing to earn it.

We have a neighbor lady, nice lady buy not all that bright. She retired from the DOD as a GS12.

Her "duties" were to pass out documents in circulation, and tend to the senior officers' calendars, pick up their laundry, etc.

Basically, a personal servant.

Being the business person he is, President Trump will be looking to cut back Government in 2018 in my opinion.

You could probably cut over 50 percent and not miss them and things would run better. My observations were the organizations I worked with were an upside down pyramid structure with more managers then workers with some not having degrees such as Liberal Arts or History Majors working on an engineering job.

Utterly ridiculous. Those rates need to be cut by at least 50%.

When half of the richest counties in the country are within an hour of DC you know something is seriously out of whack.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/r...a-2017/#13e90ad72ef3

quote:

Originally posted by XinTX:
Yep. Way too many of them. At the Rocket Ranch, there are numerous HUGE parking lots that are all reserved parking spots. Thing is, only GS 15's get them there. One lady was hired years ago as a secretary. Due to years of service, she's now a GS 15. She keeps getting assigned to the newer branch chiefs as they're the 'low man on the totem pole'. She's a GS 15 and it's widely known that if she's assigned to you, you have to hire a contractor to do her job as all she wants to do is arrange lunches for the other ladies in her social circle.
But each one of those GS 15's also need a multiplier. Easily double it, if not triple. Not just their salary. Just about every GS 15 gets an 'admin assistant', office space, IT support, plus their benefits and pensions. Their medical plan isn't super great, but they do get free use (them and their immediate family) of the on site clinic. Lot of other benefits they get.

Unless you can provide specific proof of what you are saying here, I seriously doubt this.

You don't complete one of your apparent arguments...are you saying this "lady" occupies a GS15 parking space and hence that makes her a GS15? Have you personally seen a copy of her latest SF50 showing her grade? Again, what specific proof do you have, other than hearsay and office rumor, that she is a GS15?

"Due to years of service, she's now a GS 15" - generally, years of service results in step increases within grade; e.g., GS12, step 8. Pay grade is based on the job description and what's in the Table of Distribution and Allowances (TDA) for DoD employees. In my 20+ years of working in the Pentagon, I NEVER saw/encountered/heard of a GS15 secretary/admin assistant.

I just retired from a large Army staff organization in the Pentagon. We had quite a number of GS15s in our organization, only a very few (supervisors) had dedicated admin assistants and several of them were not going to be refilled when the incumbents retired/departed. GS15 supervisors have offices - entirely appropriate. If any additional offices were available, senior non-supervisory GS15s could occupy them based on guidance from their supervisor - others were in cubicles. ALL of us had IT support.

What federal government employee, regardless of grade, doesn't get their inherent "benefits and pensions" as defined by the Office of Personnel Management?

"Lot of other benefits they get" - that's quite vague. Can you please name other specific defined "benefits" a GS15 receives that apparently GS1-GS14 employees don't get?

You sound like someone with a very large chip on their shoulder.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 229DAK,

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
Utterly ridiculous. Those rates need to be cut by at least 50%.

When half of the richest counties in the country are within an hour of DC you know something is seriously out of whack.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/r...a-2017/#13e90ad72ef3

Pick a grade/step in the middle of that pay table. Move to DC for 5 years. Then tell us what you think.

Sure, love the outrage on the GS scale...like, OMG, cut their pay by 50%!!!

Bitch please, go take a real class in .gov civics and then compare that with the rest of .com.

And just for clarification, by .gov, I mean .fed

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
Utterly ridiculous. Those rates need to be cut by at least 50%.

When half of the richest counties in the country are within an hour of DC you know something is seriously out of whack.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/r...a-2017/#13e90ad72ef3

I think two factors contribute to this matter; the law of supply/demand, and the reality of unrighteous dominion. Economics tells us that the more money that is available to spend, the higher the costs/prices/wages go. And Orwell tells us that politicians and bureaucrats always feed themselves first and foremost while pretending to serve the people.

And it also seems those most guilty are those who protest the loudest.

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
Utterly ridiculous. Those rates need to be cut by at least 50%.

When half of the richest counties in the country are within an hour of DC you know something is seriously out of whack.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/r...a-2017/#13e90ad72ef3

Sucks living in the richest county in America and not being rich.

As noted in the article, 70% of the worlds internet traffic flows through Loudoun. There is a bit more here than fed.gov employees. If you Google it, DC Metro is not even in the top three or four of areas with government workers.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
I didn't see the pay grade for a GLG20

Because they are spies, but not like us.

Rant Mode ON.

Also calling BS on a GS-15 admin ANYTHING. They don't exist. If she works for a GS-15, it's entirely possible that the 15 is giving her his/her assigned parking space and taking Metro or the slugline. Frankly, it's what I would do if it kept my payroll/admin assistant in a good mood.

Around 80% of GS employees, government-wide, are GS-10 or below (read that GS-9 or below. Because of position classification standards, GS-10s are unicorns.) GS-15s and Senior Executive Service (SES) employees are very senior careerists, totaling fewer than 5% of the workforce. The vast majority of those are in Washington DC or environs, and are at the top of the "operations" pyramid or are in policy positions

The entire payroll of the fed.gov is less than 5% of the discretionary spending of the government. Total civilian non-DoD payroll is less than what we just proposed to cut from our UN "dues." Fire every damn one of us, and you're still bleeding at 95% of the current death spiral. Sorry, that's not the answer, especially if you're talking about the sizable chunk of the civil service that actually carries out those constitutional responsibilities or supports candidly important things. You can't execute foreign diplomacy, build post roads, support a standing army/navy, investigate/prosecute/punish legitimate crimes against legitimate federal interests, keep air traffic moving, secure our borders, enforce our naturalization laws, or levy customs duties without civilian employees. They cost money. Pay comparability? I'd be happy to discuss that, but good luck finding somebody in private sector or state/local LE who does what I do. Frankly, I'd like "pay comparability" as long as the rest of the package was comparable, too. Because:

Cue the usual "Ridiculous benefits! Outrageous retirement!" observations. As one on the inside, I can say that my retirement-- while it will provide a decent level of comfort-- is a pale shadow of what some of my state and local counterparts are looking at. Yep, everyone has a story about "this friend" who retired as a GS-12-something and is getting $100K+ in retirement. Possibly the case in some rare circumstances under CSRS, but the youngest members of CSRS came onboard in 1984... so those folks simply don't exist in any real numbers any more. It's a dying system. The rest of us, under FERS, are in a contributory system yielding 1% of my "high 3" average for each year of service, or for us LEOs/Firefighters/ATCs/Nuclear Couriers, 1.7% for the first 20 years and 1% for each additional year. The taxpayers match up to 4% of my contributions to TSP (read: a 401k) but that's subject to losses like any retirement plan. Health insurance premiums are decent (I'm paying $4700 a year for self plus one, $14000 out-of-pocket maximum) but the overall package is not what is used to be.

Am I complaining? No. I chose my career because I like the work, and my variety of work is done primarily by the federal government. The pay and benefits were a part of the calculus, but not the dominant part. I didn't expect to get rich doing cop stuff. But I do weary of hearing about how good I have it, how bloated EVERY part of the government is, and how I should be reduced to fast-food wages and benefits "for the common good." For every "Can you believe this person has kept their job?" story I can tell (and as an IG guy, I can tell a BUNCH of those) I can come up with more-- within the Venn diagram of what the fed.gov SHOULD be concerned with- that show a series of quiet successes. Doesn't make for good Angry Mob fodder, though.

Rant Mode OFF. Return to your scheduled program.

Thanks, Dennis. I was tempted to wade in and attempt to provide a bit of balance to those who think the government could be run by half the present workforce (which has been on a downward trend my entire career) with pay grades neatly halved. When I retired two years ago, I was responsible for about 785,000 acres of public land and the lives and well-being of all the employees who took care of that land. I was also responsible for public land and private property—and the safety of all firefighters in a wildland fire situation.

According to some, that responsibility, and my years of experience was really worth about $40,000. Funny, for years, it was recognized that those who chose federal service did so understanding they would never be paid what comparable positions in the private sector are paid. My daughter surpassed me in salary at 24 years old in the private sector.

What got me about the GS system was how hard it is to deal with nonperformance. Had a secretary get mad, tell me she was sick and walked off the job. When her supervisor asked me what to do, I sent him to HR. Telling him to as them and do what they said. She was charged with 6 hours AWOL. Then she complained. First it was HR. No problem, we'd done our job. Then it was the IG. Then it was race relations first with gender, then with age. One thing I discovered was some of these operations needed to process complaints. It was a way to justify their jobs.
After all the noise, I asked her boss why he allowed her to come in a couple of hours early, then leave early? He gave me a blank look. That explained why he was behind on his paperwork. Once we put her on regular hours, she quickly retired.

GM-15's exist. At least they did in my day. I worked for one as a GM13 member of his team. Paul Tipton was our 688 ERO (engineered refueling overhaul) project manager team head at Mare Island Naval Shipyard. This was a several year half million man-day effort. We delivered the SSN-688 ERO ahead of schedule and under cost. Paul is pictured below with the Shipyard Commander.

As an aside after BRAC closed Mare Island, the "zoomies" picked me up on waivers. I transferred as a 13 to Ellsworth AFB and retired from there over a decade ago.

quote:

Originally posted by bald1:
DennisM,

Sorry but GM-15s exist. At least they did in my day. I worked for one as a GM13 member of his team. Paul Tipton was our 688 ERO (engineered refueling overhaul) project manager team head at Mare Island Naval Shipyard. This was a several year half million man-day effort. We delivered the SSN-688 ERO ahead of schedule and under cost. Paul is pictured below with the Shipyard Commander.

Re-read my post. They certainly exist (my second-line is one.) They just don't exist as admin assistants, clerks, or secretaries, which was an earlier assertion.

quote:

Originally posted by DennisM:

quote:

Originally posted by bald1:
DennisM,

Sorry but GM-15s exist. At least they did in my day. I worked for one as a GM13 member of his team. Paul Tipton was our 688 ERO (engineered refueling overhaul) project manager team head at Mare Island Naval Shipyard. This was a several year half million man-day effort. We delivered the SSN-688 ERO ahead of schedule and under cost. Paul is pictured below with the Shipyard Commander.

Re-read my post. They certainly exist (my second-line is one.) They just don't exist as admin assistants, clerks, or secretaries, which was an earlier assertion.

You posted this admonishment the same time I was revising my post after rereading yours. Paul was a project manager for this assignment which some may deem administrative.

And yeah my FERS retirement is a pittance despite my high grade. I get more from my officer's military retirement which had only about 11.5 years of active duty, the balance as a reservist. I was the first mandatory FERS hire at Mare Island back in the day.

quote:

Originally posted by bald1:

quote:

Originally posted by DennisM:

quote:

Originally posted by bald1:
DennisM,

Sorry but GM-15s exist. At least they did in my day. I worked for one as a GM13 member of his team. Paul Tipton was our 688 ERO (engineered refueling overhaul) project manager team head at Mare Island Naval Shipyard. This was a several year half million man-day effort. We delivered the SSN-688 ERO ahead of schedule and under cost. Paul is pictured below with the Shipyard Commander.

Re-read my post. They certainly exist (my second-line is one.) They just don't exist as admin assistants, clerks, or secretaries, which was an earlier assertion.

You posted this admonishment the same time I was revising my post after rereading yours. Paul was a project manager for this assignment which some may deem administrative.

And yeah my FERS retirement is a pittance despite my high grade. I get more from my officer's military retirement which had only about 11.5 years of active duty, the balance as a reservist. I was the first mandatory FERS hire at Mare Island back in the day.

FERS reality: There's basically no way to ever break 50% of your "high 3" under FERS.

Hypothetical LEO/Firefighter that comes on at age 22 hits mandatory retirement at 57, with 35 years of service. 34% for the first 20 years under "enhanced annuity" provisions, 15% for the next 15, totaling 49%.

FERS Regular, at 1%, same calculation: that 22-year-old would have to work to age 71 to retire with 49%.

The average FERS monthly annuity is less than $1500. Yes, you read that correctly. It's somewhat skewed by older entrants to the civilian side of government work-- generally former or retired military-- whose creditable service for FERS is only around 10-15 years when they hit the 57-62 age band and retire, but even for career-long service the average is only roughly twice that figure.

CSRS was markedly better for retirees, but went to the same extinction as virtually every other state or private-sector defined plan that was conceived during the Baby Boom.