quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

How many mpg does your Volt get once the batteries are discbarged? How much better would it get if it weren't lugging those batteries around? How much less would the initial purchase price have been without those batteries?

Around 40mpg
That's not quantified but I would imagine about the same as a chevy cruse, which is less. Hybrids run Atkinson cycle which gives up power and torque for efficiency but the motors make up for it. The volt engine is strictly a generator and provides no motivation.

Looks like around 22k for a similar cruse.
We paid 29k plus 7500 tax credit so around 22 for the volt.

I don't know what percentage of Volvo's car sales come from the US. But many, if not most national governments around the world have bought into the global warming propaganda, and are prioritizing moving away from fossil fuels. Correctly nor not, the US is an outlier about this. They likely are just trying to get ahead of what they see as both government regulation and consumer sentiment coming down the 'pike.

Edit:

Another issue. Volvo cars are a relatively small player in the US market. But their niche is upscale, with an emphasis on safety conscious. The people who buy Volvos, much more so than the general population, are going to consider environmental issues in their purchases. Correct or not, these people are going to be much more likely to want a hybrid or full electric car.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BBMW,

I'm a firm believer that if you (as a government) are going to try to push the agenda then you need to have an infrastructure plan in place immediately. Not just charging stations, but the electric capacity on your grid to account for it. I charge at 220v/20a and basically replenish 4kw an hour. Multiply that by the hundreds of millions of cars in America and you can see the dilemma.

On top of that, the volt doesn't have high amp charging, full ev can draw 60a plus, so the demand would be staggering and impossible without major additional power plants.

^
Maybe, maybe not. Electrical generation/distribution in this country is a private corporate market. They know what's happening, they, and the car companies themselves, have to deal with it.

It's not that way everywhere though and the gov clearly has interests and hands in it here too or they wouldn't be considered national security concerns.

quote:

Originally posted by billnchristy:
Gas would have to drop to 1990s prices for it to be cheaper than charging my volt.

It costs us about $20 a month extra in electric and Christy averages about 850 electric miles a month.

A car getting 50mpg would cost $34 at today prices and would need to be 1.25 to equal the same.

We don't buy green cars for the environment, we do it to save cash.

^^^^ This.

I can park my EV in the driveway and charge it every night if I choose to (I don't). If I pay $1 per night, that's still only $30. I pay that much once a week at the pump for my internal combustion-powered car.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
[FLASH_VIDEO]<iframe frameborder="0" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/FPkn7nmJB7g?rel=0" width="640"></iframe>[/FLASH_VIDEO]

2018 Dodge Challenger Demon 0-60mph: 2.3 seconds
2017 Tesla Model S P100 0-60mph: 2.28 seconds

The Tesla is quieter, too.

Eh, I am not sure if the return on investment curve for our 2017 Toyota Camry Hybrid is going to be less than 60 months or not, but I am perfectly happy with our choice. That said I am not driving it but I am driving the the 2012 Camry conventional engine. Either is fine, but the hybrid is what we take for most stuff outside of my commuting (yes at 37k+ miles a year it would give us a tremendous ROI for me to drive the newer car).
My main complaint in the conventional vs hybrid debate is when will some manufacture give us a decent diesel hybrid? It is not like this is an new technology. Sure batteries are better than on a WWII U-Boat or locomotive but come on.

The epa is doing its best to kill diesels which is why we don't have them in hybrids

quote:

Originally posted by billnchristy:

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

How many mpg does your Volt get once the batteries are discbarged? How much better would it get if it weren't lugging those batteries around? How much less would the initial purchase price have been without those batteries?

Around 40mpg
That's not quantified but I would imagine about the same as a chevy cruse, which is less. Hybrids run Atkinson cycle which gives up power and torque for efficiency but the motors make up for it. The volt engine is strictly a generator and provides no motivation.

Looks like around 22k for a similar cruse.
We paid 29k plus 7500 tax credit so around 22 for the volt.

Thank you for the imformation. It looks like without the $7,500 subsidy and assuming electrity is $.08 per Kwh and gas is $2.30 per gallon the break even between a strictly gas powered Volt and one strictly run electric only is a little over 200,000 miles. That's also assuming repairs and maintenance between the two are the same.

Without the subsidy or other people's money, I don't see the appeal.

I pay 2c when I charge after 11pm, our car is set to be ready at 530am so it usually doesn't start until 2 or so.

I was afraid switching to the ev rate would hurt us in the summer as the rate is high from 2-7pm m-f but my June bill was lower than last year without the car.

I wouldn't have a problem buying the car without the subsidies. Filling up every 4 months or so is worth it to us. Christy gets about 3500mi between tanks.

Based on the 6 years with our Prius, hybrid maintenance is less. We had 121k on it and changed oil, wipers, tires, did plugs once and brakes once, and the plugs and brakes were not long before we traded it but we hadn't decided yet. No belts in the car, no thermostat, very little that needs work.

quote:

Originally posted by pbslinger:
Kind of like the statement I could make in my community by applying and getting rejected for building a heliport, which some well to do person had their request rejected. It implies I either have or can afford a helicopter.

<thread drift> Off topic, but we had some yahoo try to carjack a helicopter (helijack?) over the weekend. He was armed and fired a shot to encourage the pilot to vacate. Witnesses, reportedly including a couple civilian CCW holders who were carrying, chased him across the street where the police caught up and shot him dead. It wasn't clear whether the CCW holders ever drew their weapons or not. </thread drift>

quote:

Filling up every 4 months or so is worth it to us. Christy gets about 3500mi between tanks.

Well that's certainly appealing.

I figured $.08/Kwh based on your post saying $20 per 850 miles on electric. My understanding is the 2016 Volt uses 10Kwh to go 50 miles. If you are only paying $.02/Kwh, then the break even is around 50,000 miles. With the subsidy, it cheaper from the get go at either electric rate.

It uses 14.3 of its 18.6 kw pack.

Your mileage may vary, ac hurts, highway speeds hurt. We did get 51.5mi with 5 remaining on the 4th driving to and from Atlanta though.

Most days her 22mi round trip only uses around 4kw.

Does Volvo know somebody in the French govt?

Link

France is set to ban the sale of any car that uses petrol or diesel fuel by 2040, in what the ecology minister called a "revolution".

Nicolas Hulot announced the planned ban on fossil fuel vehicles as part of a renewed commitment to the Paris climate deal.

He said France planned to become carbon neutral by 2050.

Hybrid cars make up about 3.5% of the French market, with pure electric vehicles accounting for just 1.2%.

It is not yet clear what will happen to existing fossil fuel vehicles still in use in 2040.

Mr Hulot, a veteran environmental campaigner, was appointed by new French President Emmanuel Macron. Mr Macron has openly criticised US environmental policy, urging Donald Trump to "make our planet great again".

President Trump's decision to withdraw from the Paris climate change agreement in June was explicitly named as a factor in France's new vehicle plan.

"France has decided to become carbon neutral by 2050 following the US decision," Mr Hulot said, adding that the government would have to make investments to meet that target.

Poorer households would receive financial assistance to replace older, more polluting vehicles with cleaner ones, he said.

Earlier this week, car manufacturer Volvo said all of its new car models would be at least partly electric from 2019, an announcement referenced by Mr Hulot.

He said he believes French car manufacturers - including brands such as Peugeot-Citroen and Renault - would meet the challenge, although he acknowledged it would be difficult. Renault's "Zoe" electric vehicle range is one of the most popular in Europe.

However, traditional fossil fuel vehicles account for about 95% of the European market.

Other targets set in the French environmental plan include ending coal power plants by 2022, reducing nuclear power to 50% of total output by 2025, and ending the issuance of new oil and gas exploration licences.

Several French cities struggle with high levels of air pollution, including Paris, which endured several days of peak pollution in March.

The capital has implemented a range of measures to cut down on cars, but air pollution is also a problem in picturesque mountain regions.

Last month, a woman took the French state to court over what she said was a failure to protect her health from the effects of air pollution in Paris.

Norway, which is the leader in the use of electric cars in Europe, wants to move to electric-only vehicles by 2025, as does the Netherlands. Both Germany and India have proposed similar measures with a target of 2030.

quote:

Originally posted by Expert308:
Does Volvo know somebody in the French govt?

Link

France is set to ban the sale of any car that uses petrol or diesel fuel by 2040, in what the ecology minister called a "revolution".

<SNIP>

Norway, which is the leader in the use of electric cars in Europe, wants to move to electric-only vehicles by 2025, as does the Netherlands. Both Germany and India have proposed similar measures with a target of 2030.

Ha! Good luck with this socialists!

RMD

quote:

Originally posted by rduckwor:

quote:

Originally posted by Expert308:
Does Volvo know somebody in the French govt?

Link

France is set to ban the sale of any car that uses petrol or diesel fuel by 2040, in what the ecology minister called a "revolution".

<SNIP>

Norway, which is the leader in the use of electric cars in Europe, wants to move to electric-only vehicles by 2025, as does the Netherlands. Both Germany and India have proposed similar measures with a target of 2030.

Ha! Good luck with this socialists!

RMD

The typical leftist response. When you can't win in the market or convince enough people that your ideas are good you just force the government to mandate it.

I paid $5500 for my last car (2005 Sienna) that runs like a champ, and has been for 6 years so far. Seems like if I paid over 20k for an electric car, in order to save money, I might be doing it wrong.