This is a video of what appears to be a small prop plane hovering in mid-air. My guess is that banner it's towing creates a large amount of drag, forcing the plane to rev up its engine to compensate. The extra airflow from the prop then washes over the wings to create lift, even with a groundspeed of zero.

Very strong headwind?

Would this be possible without a headwind?

Visual illusion, the plane is moving, albeit slowly. It's so far away and flying at an angle to the camera it appears to be hardly moving. Could also be flying into a strong headwind which would slow it's speed across the ground. I know of at least one twin engine STOL plane that uses prop wash as a source of lift, but even on a low wing single engine plane it would be negligible.

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Originally posted by kkina:
Would this be possible without a headwind?

No, you need a certain amount of wind speed over the wings to fly otherwise the plane will stall and drop like a fly. There are different winds at different altitudes, so it's possible to have a 50 knot windspeed at 10,000' and 10 knots at sea level. Most banner planes themselves have a low air speed that they need to stay airborne.

I've done this in my CTSW. Full flaps at 40 kt into a 40 kt wind at 2500 feet. Freaked out ATC showing 0 ground speed.

Headwind. A friend took off rolling backwards, went around the pattern, and landed her J-3 Cub rolling backwards, just to say she’d done it.

I took my Cessna 140 off at a very low (but positive ground speed), went ‘round the pattern, then landed at a very low ground speed. No rolling backwards for me.

In the video, you can see from the attitude that the airplane isn’t hanging on the prop. Puckpilot78 nailed it.

I had a 152 going backwards over the ground in a very strong headwind one time.

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In the video, you can see from the attitude that the airplane isn’t hanging on the prop.

But that could be because it's towing a banner.

I get what you're saying about distance and perspective, but I really don't think that plane is moving.

I flew in a 1939 Stinson it had cloth skin on it. Really cool old plane. It had a round wooden steering wheel instead of a yoke. We were doing about 65 knots and I asked the pilot, how fast will this thing fly? He answered “ just fast enough to kill you if you hit the ground in it”. I’m a skydiver and I’ve jumped out of some pretty cool aircraft.

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Originally posted by kkina:

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In the video, you can see from the attitude that the airplane isn’t hanging on the prop.

But that could be because it's towing a banner.

Nope. It is hard to make out, but it looks like a Cessna, at most a 182. Not enough horsepower there to hang on a prop. Now if it were a P&W powered 450hp Stearman like the previously mentioned friend and her husband use to tow banners, maybe you could get pretty close to hanging on the prop, but you’d still see the nose up attitude.

It is fun watching them take off with a banner. They lay it out backwards, with the end where the tow rope attaches farthest from the direction they are going. They take off, go around the pattern, land, then taxi forward until the hitch end of the rope reaches the hitch near the tailwheel, hookup, then takeoff toward the banner. They’ll roll what looks like somewhere between 100’ and 200’, break ground, and climb at what looks like a 45° angle. The rope unrolls back toward the banner, the banner folds back over itself, then The end snaps right off the ground. No dragging, no inflight pickup, just peel it off the ground and go.

ETA: Dang that is a long way away. It looks like it could be a low wing, maybe a Pawnee or a Call-Air, it is really hard to see what it is. It isn’t hanging on the prop though, it is “hovering” into a headwind.

V-Tail...white telephone please sir

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Originally posted by kkina:
I get what you're saying about distance and perspective, but I really don't think that plane is moving.

If the camera operator doesn’t move, and it doesn’t appear they do - at the beginning of the video the plane is almost directly over the white car across from the camera. The last time we see both plane and car in the frame around the 1:35 mark the plane is def off to the right of the car. Again it’s not moving much and you can tell by how much the camera has to zoom to get a closer shot of the plane it’s a good distance (3 miles maybe) away.

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
This is a video of what appears to be a small prop plane hovering in mid-air. My guess is that banner it's towing creates a large amount of drag, forcing the plane to rev up its engine to compensate. The extra airflow from the prop then washes over the wings to create lift, even with a groundspeed of zero.

What you're describing, no. Not physically possible, and makes no sense.

Is it possible to remain geostationary, or in one place over the ground, while flying an airplane? Yes. I've done it many times.

If one is flying at 100 knots true airspeed, in a 100 knot headwind, the result is zero groundspeed, or in other words, one remains in one spot over the ground. In a light airplane, one can fly at low speed. It doesn't take a lot of headwind to equal zero groundspeed.

It's also possible to move backward over the ground, with a headwind, when the headwind value exceeds true airspeed; if one is maintaining 40 knots airspeed in a 55 knot wind, one is moving. backward at 15 knots.

When banner towing, one is limited by the maximum speed on the banner; typically 80 mph or less, and with larger banners, one is also limited by available horsepower and thrust. There comes a point when one is using all the power, and one can't tow a longer or larger banner.

The drag of the banner opposes engine thrust. The drag of the banner cannot equal zero airspeed in still air; the airplane must have enough airflow over the wings to create adequate lift. Therefore, the banner has nothing to do with making an airplane stationary over the ground. There will be a minimum speed that the airplane can fly, regardless, limited by power and stall speed, and power is in turn limited to what's necessary to overcome drag and maintain level flight in a given configuration.

Bottom line; it's a wind value close to the true airspeed of the airplane, that results in zero groundspeed, or close to it.

If the banner were to cause such drag that the airplane had no forward speed, the airplane would fall out of the air, and prop blast over the banner wouldn't help. The The prop doesn't create lift; the wing does that, and requires airflow over the wing. That airflow comes from airspeed. Whether The aircraft is stationary in a 50 knot wind, or moving forward at 50 knots in still air, makes no difference to the airplane, but appears different to an observer on the ground.

In both cases, the airspeed indicated in the cockpit will be the same.

That's the first "ground speed check" in the L.A. Speed Check story.

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Originally posted by dsiets:
That's the first "ground speed check" in the L.A. Speed Check story.

That is a great video!!! “And that’s when I knew we were becoming a crew.” (or something similar)

I watched a 152 leap off the ground and fly backwards for about 100'.

It ended up in the jet wash of a C5A when the larger aircraft turned and ran up its engines. I knew the pilot and he handled it well. The student with him, needed some calming down.

The banner is tangled in the power lines, plane can't go anywhere !

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Originally posted by Bisleyblackhawk:
V-Tail...white telephone please sir

Nah, I'm not needed here.

I have nothing to contribute that's different from what the other aeronauts have already said; all of the pilots or other knowledgeable people who have spoken up, have spoken the truth.

I'll just sit this one out unless something really catches my attention.