I have begun the process of applying to a few of the departments in my state. I completed the National Testing Network (NTN) test earlier and my score was not at all what I expected. Specifically in the math portion...it was incredibly easy, consisting of 1st grade level math problems. I am 100% positive I didn't miss any of them. However, the results I was given said that my performance was only in the top 30% of NTN test takers in this category. The results from the other sections were similar, a little lower in the mechanical portion because that is not at all what I expected). I have two theories...

-30% of people score a 100% on this section (seems highly likely), so I am inline with these other applicants.

-The exam score output doesn't get more specific than "top 30%"

-I am a complete idiot who somehow messed up basic addition, subtraction, multiplication and division

Can anyone shed some light onto this?

Sorry, I have no knowledge whatsoever on NTN and things have changed dramatically nationwide with hiring practices since I came on. It used to be about the best candidate for the job. Score high, rank high. Now there are many other factors in play for nauseating reasons....

quote:

Originally posted by DCFD4:
Sorry, I have no knowledge whatsoever on NTN and things have changed dramatically nationwide with hiring practices since I came on. It used to be about the best candidate for the job. Score high, rank high. Now there are many other factors in play for nauseating reasons....

Actually the process currently works (at least the places I am aplying to)

-Take the NTN

-Based on your test scores, youre invited to apply

-Departments have no other knowledge about you other than your NTN score.

In other words, no other factors really matter unless you can get high enough test scores to get your foot in the door. And thats all Im really concerned with at the moment. I have no doubt the rest of what you say is true at later stages but for now its not a factor.

You are correct. I don't doubt that NTN is unbiased. It's the departments that have the agenda.... Good luck to you. I hope you follow through and get hired somewhere. Best job in the world.

How basic was the basic arithmetic?

I routinely see things like Order of Operations errors mess up otherwise "simple" math equations involving multiple integers.

It's been decades since most people have had a basic math class, and it's easy for stuff like that to slip your mind.

Lowering the standards means that the exceptional no longer stand out. Lower them enough, and you cannot tell the incompetent from the adequate.

A general observation. I know nothing of the NTN except what I have read in this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
How basic was the basic arithmetic?

You would be shocked. Literally basic addition, subtraction, division and multiplication. Things like "A truck has 200 feet of hose. if they needed 800 feet of hose, how many trucks are needed?" Stuff that is impossible to mess up unless youre not a functioning human.

8?

quote:

"A truck has 200 feet of hose. if they needed 800 feet of hose, how many trucks are needed?"

Only one, but it needs to have 600 feet of hose.

I can't imagine why anyone would voluntarily go to work somewhere where Affirmative Action is used.

Unless, of course, you have no real ambition and don't mind working for idiots.

quote:

Originally posted by Flash-LB:
I can't imagine why anyone would voluntarily go to work somewhere where Affirmative Action is used.

Unless, of course, you have no real ambition and don't mind working for idiots.

That could be said for any job now.

Who said anything about Affirmative Action?

If anything, this hiring method would appear designed to eliminate the possibility of discrimination or affirmative action being a concern... Everyone takes the same test. People then apply based on their test scores alone. The departments don't know the Race/Sex/Etc. of the applicants, so it can't be a consideration.

quote:

Originally posted by patw:

quote:

Originally posted by Flash-LB:
I can't imagine why anyone would voluntarily go to work somewhere where Affirmative Action is used.

Unless, of course, you have no real ambition and don't mind working for idiots.

That could be said for any job now.

Not at all. Affirmative action started around 50 years ago and I got burned by it back then, so I started working for Medical Electronic Start Ups. Turns out the affirmative action rules didn't apply to companies with less than 100 employees IIRC. After a number of years doing that, I started my own company and finished my career doing that.

So, I never put up with it again after getting burned by it 50 years or so ago.

It's very easy to avoid it in today's world.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Who said anything about Affirmative Action?

If anything, this hiring method would appear designed to eliminate the possibility of discrimination or affirmative action being a concern... Everyone takes the same test. People then apply based on their test scores alone. The departments don't know the Race/Sex/Etc. of the applicants, so it can't be a consideration.

Rogue, you are correct about the testing process but then once the candidates complete the testing process they apply to individual departments that are hiring. At that point you're in totally different territory.... The dept will do a full background check, one or more interviews, polygraph (some depts), etc. So if there is an agenda by the dept to hire certain individuals this is the point were you'll be passed up. It also depends on if the dept ranks applicants by final scores or if they just select from a pool. Both are common around the country. Then there's also preference points for residency, military exp, foster child, etc.

Can you all please just ignore the completely off topic and clearly attention seeking comment from Flash-LB? It was in no way helpful, is clearly someone's attempt to vent their personal frustrations and seek attention, and is a massive thread drift that will only lead to me not getting an answer on an important question I have.

If you cannot help with my question, please don't post. I don't care about your feelings on the process, nor about an affirmative action debate.

I'm unaware of what the definition of (in the top 30%) means for that test. However I know many departments (mine included) use only certain portions of the test. Since that is the case, I would study the material again and re-test, so that you are scoring your best in each area. That will ensure that you'll be place in the top of many lists for several departments. Hope this helps. Send me an email, and we can chat about my departments hiring process and any other questions you have.

We had about a 4 hr. written test, but I don't recall it being called NTN or anything. They also didn't tell us how we did. We were either invited to take the physical test, which was CPAT at the time, or I guess, "better luck next time". Human resources runs our written test, so as a department, we're not involved at all with it.

quote:

Originally posted by cokehockey:
I'm unaware of what the definition of (in the top 30%) means for that test. However I know many departments (mine included) use only certain portions of the test. Since that is the case, I would study the material again and re-test, so that you are scoring your best in each area. That will ensure that you'll be place in the top of many lists for several departments. Hope this helps. Send me an email, and we can chat about my departments hiring process and any other questions you have.

Thanks. There's really no way to study the material, though. The test isnt knowledge based. Its a series of videos that you watch, and are then asked "What would you do on this situation?" The "mechanical" portion would especially be impossible to study for, as when you take it, you're shown some kind of animated machine, and then asked to interpret how it works, how you would install a certain type of bolt, etc.

I really appreciate you taking the time to respond and making the offer to communicate.

Right now if you have your medic and have a qualifying CPAT score you can pretty much get hired career fire here in Michigan.

Not much help with the test you mention.