In this video, the pilot is working the throttle pretty hard (especially as he nears the carrier), making a lot of adjustments back and forth. I thought jet engines did not spool up and down this quickly....I assume, with this level of training and the precision required to do carrier landing, that he is not making all these adjustments for the hell of it, but can the engine really react that fast?

I saw that same video a few days ago and wondered about that. My assumption was he’s idling back and just bumping in power as he needs a bit more. I’ll look forward to someone who’s been there to help the rest of us understand what’s really going on.

Just watching him park with the nose going over the edge of the ship gave me the heebie jeebies!

Ahem......Paging Rhino......Paging Rhino to the gunmetal gray courtesy phone.

Modern fighter engines are very responsive to throttle movements, especially in the higher thrust ranges usually
above 85 to 90% rpm. Pretty much been that way sense the F-104 & F-4 in the 60's (same engine}

I've got some front-seat time in the Classic Hornet (A, B, C and D models), so maybe I can help.

Keep in mind that for carrier landings the approach is made at a constant angle of attack (AOA). Therefore, the throttle controls altitude via vertical speed. While it looks like huge amounts of power are being applied then retarded, it's really not. In the landing pattern the Vertical Speed Indicator (VSI) is constantly watched because at certain points in the approach the VSI is supposed to be at a certain value. For example, at 90 degrees of turn to go before lining up with the carrier, the VSI is supposed to be -450 feet per minute (if you're at the correct altitude). With the wings at 30 degrees angle of bank, the power requirement to maintain that VSI is higher. As you adjust your turn via bank angle to line up with the carrier, the power requirement to maintain a steady VSI will change as well. These power changes are nearly constant, but very small.

As you turn through the 45 the VSI should be slightly increasing. Then as you get lined up on centerline and level the wings, you must decrease power to overcome the increased lift from leveled wings. You ALSO need to maintain ~700 to -750 FPM on the VSI to maintain a centered ball* so that's another reason for what appears to be a big power reduction as he rolls onto centerline. But as -700 FPM is achieved, a power addition is required to stop the VSI at -700, then a slight power reduction to maintain -700. Rolling wings level in the groove is 3-step power change at a minimum.

VSI predicts your future on approach. The ball may look centered, but if the VSI is -800 and increasing, you already know you're going low and a power increase is needed to get the VSI back to the -700 range. Then a power decrease to once again maintain -700.

You'll notice he's in full military power (not afterburner) crossing the ramp. This is because of "the Burble" which is created by the carrier's island. 30 knots of winds over the deck has to go somewhere when it hits the island, and the burble behind it creates a sink hole which you have to be ready for. Without the anticipation, you'll go from a steady centered ball and looking forward to a 3-wire to a quickly-sinking ball and end up on the 1-wire.

To answer another question of the OP's: Yes, the awesome GE motors can respond that quickly, but remember the actual power difference out the back end is not as big as you might imagine. It may appear there is a large gob of power being applied, but it's just small amounts over short amounts of time. So in summary, you are always correcting for being high or low on the glideslope via the throttles. The magnitude of power changes are based on how good you are that day keeping the glideslope deviations to a minimum. And to answer another question, you should NEVER be at idle for any reason during the appoach.

*Assuming centered ball rolling into the groove, steady winds of 25-30 knots over the deck, 8.1 degrees angle of attack which is in the neighborhood of 136 knots, normal landing weight, etc, etc.

Great explanation! Thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by Tailhook 84:
I've got some front-seat time in the Classic Hornet (A, B, C and D models), so maybe I can help.

There's an expert on everything at SF. Thanks for the info.

quote:

Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:

quote:

Originally posted by Tailhook 84:
I've got some front-seat time in the Classic Hornet (A, B, C and D models), so maybe I can help.

There's an expert on everything at SF. Thanks for the info.

Maybe? I'd say yeah, you're probably good.

This place is awesome!

That is always cool to see.

The only joking comment I would make as a civilian freight dog is "Low visibility? That's GREAT visibility!" Though admittedly it looks a bit windy out there.

Impressive job, even if it's what you do all the time.

The bare flight deck and where he parked tells me this was probably a Carrier Qualification (CQ) event for the F-18 training squadron. He might be a new guy, and there are certain limits to CQ for new guys, such as pitching deck limits, ceiling and visibility, etc. If he was a new guy this kind of weather would be considered "bad weather and low visibility" to them. Little do they know what they're in for during fleet operations.

Trying to maintain visual separation from other gray airplanes while trying to find a gray boat in low ceilings and visibility always adds to the fun factor. And the ship is make very little wake which means there is a lot of natural wind as Otto pointed out. Windy days make maintaining a constant VSI a challenge.

As mentioned by XerO, the taxi to final parking can be another extra fun-filled adventure. This is especially true when the yellow shirts give you a "tour of the bow" at night where there is no scupper (the white lip on the deck edge) to keep you from going overboard. Those yellow shirts you see in the video are directing the pilot when to turn, stop and go, and you are expected to follow their directions. Feeling your tires slide and hit the scuppers is always fun, especially at night.

There's also a visual illusion when pointing aft that I always had to fight. Seeing the water flowing away from me in my peripheral vision with some deck motion always made me feel like I was sliding backwards. On more than one night event I've mashed the living shit out of the brake pedals thinking I was sliding backwards when I was perfectly still.

quote:

Originally posted by Otto Pilot:
That is always cool to see.

The only joking comment I would make as a civilian freight dog is "Low visibility? That's GREAT visibility!" Though admittedly it looks a bit windy out there.

Impressive job, even if it's what you do all the time.

Yeah, visibility is fine, but the thing that would make me pucker, and raise my adrenalin level, is a tiny runway that's bouncing around.

quote:

This is especially true when the yellow shirts give you a "tour of the bow" at night where there is no scupper (the white lip on the deck edge) to keep you from going overboard. Those yellow shirts you see in the video are directing the pilot when to turn, stop and go, and you are expected to follow their directions. Feeling your tires slide and hit the scuppers is always fun, especially at night.

There's also a visual illusion when pointing aft that I always had to fight. Seeing the water flowing away from me in my peripheral vision with some deck motion always made me feel like I was sliding backwards. On more than one night event I've mashed the living shit out of the brake pedals thinking I was sliding backwards when I was perfectly still.

This part right here, to be perfectly honest, is the thing that always gave me shivers when I think about it. I have stomped on the brakes before when the airplane parked next to me started getting pushed back out of a parking spot making me think I was rolling forward.

That little voice in my head has very grand opinions of my ability to fly, so it says rightly or wrongly, "I could do that with the right plane and training". Taxiing on deck in all that controlled chaos is another thing altogether.

Thanks for that very vivid explanation, Tailhook. And also for your years of service!!! I was BLESSED to have an F-18 driver (ret.) as my sim partner last year. He was friggin' AWESOME and he pretty much explained your AOA technique exactly as described. What you men and women do on an aircraft carrier is simply mind-boggling and scrotum-tightening.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: erj_pilot,

quote:

Originally posted by 104RFAST:
Modern fighter engines are very responsive to throttle movements, especially in the higher thrust ranges usually
above 85 to 90% rpm. Pretty much been that way sense the F-104 & F-4 in the 60's (same engine}

I was pretty impressed with the back end thump of the F4, with GE demonstrating again that you can fly a refrigerator if you put enough thrust behind it. Always impressed by the Navy guys hitting that little bitty plank in the pond....