News from last month but I recently found out about it and is refreshing to read as a decades long investor with Vanguard and becoming frustrated and concerned with their "woke" crap so hopefully they have seen the light and get back to helping investors maximizing their returns. I don't care if they offer ESG funds for those that want them but when it becomes a company mandate with targets for their portfolio managers, then screw that. ESG is a total scam anyhow and largely politically motivated by the left and used to shake down companies.

https://www.reuters.com/busine...alliance-2022-12-07/ and used to shake down companies.

Vanguard quits net zero climate effort, citing need for independence

Dec 7 (Reuters) - Vanguard Group Inc is pulling out of a major investment-industry initiative on tackling climate change, the world's biggest mutual fund manager said on Wednesday, explaining it wants to demonstrate independence and clarify its views for investors.

Top investors including Pennsylvania-based Vanguard, face mounting pressure from Republican U.S. politicians over their use of environmental, social and governance (ESG) factors in picking and managing securities.

One focus of criticism has been the effort known as the Net Zero Asset Managers (NZAM) initiative, launched in late 2020 to encourage fund firms to reach net zero emission targets by 2050 and limit the rise in global temperatures. As of Nov. 9, NZAM counted 291 signatories representing some $66 trillion in assets under management.

As recently as May Vanguard was touting commitments it had made in line with NZAM's goals. On Wednesday Vanguard posted a statement on its website saying industry initiatives like NZAM can create confusion.

"We have decided to withdraw from NZAM so that we can provide the clarity our investors desire about the role of index funds and about how we think about material risks, including climate-related risks—and to make clear that Vanguard speaks independently on matters of importance to our investors," Vanguard said in the statement.

Screw vanguard… if they can fuck with your money then… They can still fuck with your money going forward.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
Screw vanguard… if they can fuck with your money then… They can still fuck with your money going forward.

I look at it differently. They have figured out that the ESG movement doesn’t pay and remembered that they are in the business of making money. Went from WOKE to woken up? That moves Vanguard up a level over some other investment firms IMO.

As for being able to fuck with your money, that is sort of the point, the OP is paying them to fuck with his money.

Far too many other/alternative sensible choices available.

It's also a crack in the dike. No one fears missing out like competing investment firms, so hopefully this is a sign that Corporate America is tired of playing the woke corporate citizen.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
Screw vanguard… if they can fuck with your money then… They can still fuck with your money going forward.

How exactly was Vanguard "fucking with your money"?

You still have 100% control over where your money is invested through Vanguard, as with any brokerage.

Just don't invest in ESG funds.

All brokerages offer them, because they know there's an ass for every seat and they're not going to turn down money. Funnily enough, a number of them also offer what are effectively "anti-ESG" funds, which invest in stuff like gun and booze companies.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
Screw vanguard… if they can fuck with your money then… They can still fuck with your money going forward.

How exactly was Vanguard "fucking with your money"?

You still have 100% control over where your money is invested through Vanguard, as with any brokerage.

Just don't invest in ESG funds.

Really? Tell me how you manage your 401(k) with your company selections?


My Vanguard accounts on my 401(k), which there are many… Probably half of the choices… Are all target retirement funds with a mix of equities and bonds.

The E.S.G. stuff pollutes good decision making. If you think ESG was only in the funds labeled ESG, I got a bridge to sell you.

Doesn’t matter I went to cash/treasuries 18 months ago

Easy, my company doesn't dictate 401k selections, because public employees don't have access to 401ks.

If you have a problem with your company's limited 401k selections, that sounds like something to take up with your company. And if you have a non-company-401k brokerage account with Vanguard, you can still invest in literally anything you want.

Besides, Vanguard's target date retirement funds are far from ESG funds. They're comprised of total market index funds, which track the entire stock/bond markets. That means every company in the stock market in proportion to their market cap, not just a small collection of woke companies like a specific ESG fund.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Easy, my company doesn't dictate my 401k selections.

If you have a non-company-401k brokerage account with Vanguard, you can invest in literally anything you want.

And Vanguard's target retirement funds are far from ESG funds. They're total market index funds, which track the entire market with every company in it, not just a small collection of woke companies like a specific ESG fund.

OK. Give Vanguard as much of your money as you feel jiggy with. lol

I’m still pretty big into Vanguard, but I’ve backed off the fanboy level in recent years. Like many companies, Bogle the head is gone, off they drift.

It’s not necessarily this wokism for me. They wanted me to roll most of my funds into a ‘brokerage’ account labeling, same holdings. When I did I lost check writing and the links to 2 banks. Setting it up again has been problematic.

They were known for lower cost, then all the index funds. I see Schwab & T Row Price have comparable options now.

I can understand some having hostile opinions of Vanguard but I am glad they seem to have seen the error of their ways and are pulling out of the bullshit climate alliance. Vanguard is still a giant player in their realm and it should show others not to be afraid of these woke bullies.

I have noted here that this is an issue for me.
I won't say just yet that Vanguard shit the bed, but close. I too think this is a positive step, but do still have concerns as Signified mentions.
I am not overly happy at this point.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
Screw vanguard… if they can fuck with your money then… They can still fuck with your money going forward.

How exactly was Vanguard "fucking with your money"?

You still have 100% control over where your money is invested through Vanguard, as with any brokerage.

Just don't invest in ESG funds.

Really? Tell me how you manage your 401(k) with your company selections?


My Vanguard accounts on my 401(k), which there are many… Probably half of the choices… Are all target retirement funds with a mix of equities and bonds.

The E.S.G. stuff pollutes good decision making. If you think ESG was only in the funds labeled ESG, I got a bridge to sell you.

Doesn’t matter I went to cash/treasuries 18 months ago

I'm not sure why you're so down on Vanguard. Vanguard offers funds that you can either invest in or not invest in. Shitty returns, change funds. Seems as though your employers 401K plan is the fucked up piece of this equation. Too bad that 1/2 the funds are Vanguard target retirement funds. Is that Vanguards problem? No. Is it yours and your employers problem? Yes. Vanguard lessening their use of ESG scoring (whatever ESG even means, there is no universal ESG scoring system) as a criteria for investing in a funds underlying securities may or may not be successful. Time will tell. To me, untying a fund managers hands and allowing them a broader investment spectrum seems like a good thing.

As far as ESG funds go, you're correct. An investor not knowing if all underlying securities practice ESG governance is not just a problem unique to Vanguard fund.

Depending on what your employers match is, maybe you should evaluate whether or not to stay with their 401K. If the plan is as fucked up as you make it sound maybe you should evaluate changing your employer. Investing in individual stocks and bonds is the only way that I am aware of to be 100% sure that your investments are 100% ESG free. My employer has a 401A plan where I can invest in any individual stock or individual fund that can be purchased through Fidelity. That is why I've stayed there for so long. An employer that offers something similar might be a better alternative for you since you will have way more control over what you're invested in.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
Screw vanguard… if they can fuck with your money then… They can still fuck with your money going forward.

How exactly was Vanguard "fucking with your money"?

You still have 100% control over where your money is invested through Vanguard, as with any brokerage.

Just don't invest in ESG funds.

Really? Tell me how you manage your 401(k) with your company selections?


My Vanguard accounts on my 401(k), which there are many… Probably half of the choices… Are all target retirement funds with a mix of equities and bonds.

The E.S.G. stuff pollutes good decision making. If you think ESG was only in the funds labeled ESG, I got a bridge to sell you.

Doesn’t matter I went to cash/treasuries 18 months ago

I think you're barking up the wrong tree. You don't have the choice of all Vanguard mutual funds in your 401(k), co you? There are 266 funds just counting mutual funds.

The choices of what's available has a lot to do with your company also, not just Vanguard.

A stock may be an ESG stock and also in the S&P 500 mutual fund. If a fund has to mimic the performance of the S&P 500, they can't overweight or underweight the percentage of a company on the basis of ESG.

ESG funds were a play on the bet that people who advocate for ESG will put their money where their mouth is. Stocks would rise just on on the basis of demand. Apparently, it's not paying off or else mutual fund companies will keep these ESG funds. Vanguard and other mutual fund companies is all about being green - money, of course.

Would this (prior) practice only affect certain funds? For those who use their Index funds, I'm thinking this would have been a moot point?

quote:

Originally posted by r0gue:
For those who use their Index funds, I'm thinking this would have been a moot point?

Correct. As ReyHRH stated, index funds are comprised of stocks based on their market capitalization's percentage within that index, not on any other ranking/rating scale (ESG or otherwise).

So, for a basic example, if Smith Inc's stock comprises 5% of the value of the S&P500 and JohnCo makes up 2% of the S&P500, then 5% of each share of your S&P500 Index Fund is invested in Smith Inc. and 2% is invested in JohnCo.

Whereas an ESG fund might be comprised of 12% Smith Inc. because that fund manager determined Smith Inc. is an especially environmentally friendly company, and not include JohnCo at all because they decided JohnCo is not woke enough.

If Vanguard is doing such a bang up job, why did 13 State AGs just file a lawsuit against them for their energy related policies per E.S.G.?



21 State AGs scrutinizing this esg nonsense right now.

My company changed 401k plans four or five times.The most money I ever made
was with Vangaurd, but that was fifteen or more years ago. A couple of quarters
I made more in interest than I did working 40 hours a week. My older brother
is helping me reinvest all my money, He's good at that. I'm tired of getting
Quartely statements telling me I lost another ten or fifteen thousand dollars.
I know how to save money just don't know how to invest it.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
If Vanguard is doing such a bang up job, why did 13 State AGs just file a lawsuit against them for their energy related policies per E.S.G.?



21 State AGs scrutinizing this esg nonsense right now.

Sometimes I'll take what I can get, and this is as good a time as any for Vanguard to have seen the light. Mule, meet two-by-four.

quote:

why did 13 State AGs just file a lawsuit against them

Got a source for this?