If we start digging now, I am pretty sure we will have a hole deep and wide enough to toss this PoS into alive at the conclusion of his trial. On the courthouse lawn, right outside the door would be my choice. Can we get some volunteers to refill the hole and restore the turf afterwards? No experience necessary.

^^^ Utah allows the death penalty, but only for aggravated murder. Executions are rare, and the state uses two methods: lethal injection or the firing squad. If lethal drugs are not available, the firing squad is mandated.

I'll volunteer a box of ammo... 30.06 even.
Or maybe, use his own fully engraved ammo?

quote:

Or maybe, use his own fully engraved ammo?

Hell yeah! That would be very fitting.

https://youtu.be/jyaYUjvSXNg?is=QeDlDTdAoSPozGG4

Not sure what this might suggest.

https://rumble.com/v7cjbjk-bre...e-doesnt-add-up.html

Tried again

This message has been edited. Last edited by: FrankMoses,

These are pictures of the bullet fragment reportedly recovered during Charlie Kirk’s autopsy, and which were introduced during the preliminary hearing for the “suspect.”





Its condition and because it was reportedly recovered from the victim’s neck strengthens my opinion that the bullet first struck something between the shooter and the victim which caused it to break apart and lose most of its mass and velocity. My opinions about many things have been wrong before, but at this point I cannot believe that a 30-06 Springfield bullet with gilding metal jacket and lead core as the fragment evidently had would have been damaged like that and remained in the victim’s neck unless that had happened.

Yep. Seems, bizarre. Mike (Mr G&G) postulated that the ammo was likely Remington 150 or 180 grain CoreLokt, which could traverse a moose’s neck and maybe look better than those remnants.
Still a slam dunk conviction, but I hate that there’s this goofy sideshow distraction.

Bizzare but not impossible. The most consistent thing about bullets impacting a target, unfortunately in this case, comprised of the neck/spinal column and surrounding tissue, is that they behave inconsistently. Anecdotal evidence on my part, but I’ve shot enough deer in my lifetime to see how just a fraction of an inch can make the difference between complete penetration and bullet that shatters on bone.

quote:

Originally posted by FrankMoses:
https://youtu.be/jyaYUjvSXNg?is=QeDlDTdAoSPozGG4

Not sure what this might suggest.

“Video not available”

quote:

Originally posted by FrankMoses:
Yep. Seems, bizarre. Mike (Mr G&G) postulated that the ammo was likely Remington 150 or 180 grain CoreLokt, which could traverse a moose’s neck and maybe look better than those remnants.
Still a slam dunk conviction, but I hate that there’s this goofy sideshow distraction.

I've had similar performance from Remington Core-Lokt and Winchester Silvertip rifle (.30-06 and .308 Winchester) ammunition before, when I've shot deer and wild pigs. The animal's bone structure and thin copper jackets present a bad mix if you're hoping to get consistent/deep penetration with these older style bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:...

my opinion that the bullet first struck something between the shooter and the victim which caused it to break apart and lose most of its mass and velocity. ...

I first believed this might be the case, but back when everyone was up in arms about the ATF not being able to "identify/match the bullet to the rifle", I recall reading the ATF forensics stated the bullet fragmented when it hit bone in CK's neck.

And that was why the bullet "could not be matched to the rifle", and I believe that to mean, they could not match rifling marks or any other means to direct tie it to the rifle, not that is was not fired from the rifle.

I do not know if they, could or did, conclusively based on further investigation of the copper and other residue by comparing to test fired ammunition also recovered.

Some fragments of lead separate from the jacket fragment were also reportedly recovered at autopsy. That could support the idea that the bullet blew up on a thin bone column and remained in a (very) few inches of tissue, or it could have happened after the fragmented bullet struck his neck. In any event it’s not something I would bet the rent on. I will, however, be interested in the autopsy report if it is ever released.

My big game hunting experience is very limited, but I still vividly recall the one time I was with my father when he shot a doe deer. The cartridge was the relatively new 7mm Remington Magnum at the time. It was a clean wound through the neck including the spinal column. I always think of that shot when considering the idea of a 150-180 grain bullet delivering a ton or so of kinetic energy to the target and how the bullet would be badly damaged but still manage to be stopped by a human neck.

I have also had personal knowledge of several incidents involving shootings with handguns, and know how much human tissue they can penetrate (I never was involved in one in which the bullet remained in the body). The lowest projectile power involved in any of my cases was a 38 S&W Special 148 grain wadcutter target load. Its muzzle velocity was probably about 800 fps and its flat nose would have limited penetration. That bullet passed through a uniform shirt and completely through the victim’s chest while grazing at least one rib and losing a bit of lead. It was admittedly stopped by the back of the shirt, but at 210 ft-lb of muzzle energy, that wasn’t too surprising. Based on limited research, a typical 30-06 hunting load of the type evidently involved in the Kirk murder would be delivering well over 10 times that energy at 100 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
I recall reading the ATF forensics stated the bullet fragmented when it hit bone in CK's neck.

I do not recall that in anything I’ve read about the case, and it seems odd. Not impossible, though, I suppose. I will point out, though, that based on my personal experience, ATF agents are not as expert on all things firearms-related as one might expect. But I could be wrong despite what my experiences and my knowledge of physics might tell me.

By way of comparison to what’s being discussed, this is a picture of a sheet of 1/8 inch hot rolled steel. The hole was made by a 308 Winchester Hornady 155 grain A-MAX bullet fired from a distance of 50 yards.





Neck bones are tough, but significantly tougher than steel plate?

I finished a small Blacktail buck with a 158 grain soft point .357 out of a 4” model 66 at the range of 12 to 18”, in the neck just below his skull.Later when I skinned the buck I recovered the well mushroomed slug on the outside of the spinal column, It had not penetrated the column at all. Maybe 2 or 3” depth.
Bullets can do weird things.

OZ

Let me ask you guys- and a simple yes or no with no elaboration is what I'm looking for: Based upon the facts in evidence, is there any doubt in your mind that this Robinson guy shot Charlie Kirk?

Step right up, if you please. No elaboration; just yes, I have doubts, or no, I am certain.

No, none whatsoever.

I have no doubt.

I haven’t the least doubt. The perp confessed, although not in court.

No.

No doubt.

More than enough to convict

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Let me ask you guys- and a simple yes or no with no elaboration is what I'm looking for: Based upon the facts in evidence, is there any doubt in your mind that this Robinson guy shot Charlie Kirk?

Step right up, if you please. No elaboration; just yes, I have doubts, or no, I am certain.

Thank you! There are no forums on the www that can beat dead horses or drag things into the weeds for pages like this one can at times. Lots of experts dick measuring..