Charlie Kirk Assassinated

November 17, 2025, 06:10 PM

jljones

quote:
Originally posted by ScreamingCockatoo:

How did the USSS mess up so bad?
Complete incompetence?
That female agent fumbling with her sidearm is a good indicator of the condition of the USSS.

And a sniper being able to put a ladder up on a roof?
Really? More Keystone Kops Klownshow.

I deal stupidity everyday in my field.(educated professionals)
These same stupid people work elsewhere. Including all scopes of law enforcement.

Yeah, I believe the secret service dropped the ball that bad. I even believe that Trumps detail was filled with average to below average. Intentionally.

Hell, I’d buy that there were those in the upper ranks that wanted it to happen. Even as far as the constant denials for additional resources as proof.

But, I don’t believe that the cops on the ground were in on it. Someone would have came forward by now. At the very least, one of the house committees would have uncovered it by now.

As a said, a vast conspiracy is a tall order. Someone would have talked by now.

November 17, 2025, 06:47 PM

sigfreund

I suppose it’s at least partially due to my being a shooter and somewhat avid gun owner, but the question that often comes to my mind about things like the attempted murder of DJT is why do the brilliant masterminds who are behind the event manage certain aspects so well, but then screw up the easy parts.

Regarding that incident, they managed the literally incredible by completely suborning an entire gaggle of law enforcement agents and other people to allow the killer to get into position unhindered, and yet they didn’t ensure that he would have the skills and weapon to accomplish their mission. I understand that the recruitment was probably difficult; even today some people might draw the line at spending the rest of their lives in prison (if fortunate), not to mention the possibility of just being killed on the spot. But once they’ve gotten him recruited and hooked, why didn’t they make sure he would succeed?

With a little training, practice, and having a proper weapon for the purpose, someone else would be President today. Why didn’t anyone tell him, “Hey, man, ARs like that are fine for shooting up a school, but we can set you up with something that any big game hunter for the last 80 years would tell you was a better choice, and teach you how to use it”? A real puzzler.

November 17, 2025, 10:37 PM

CPD SIG

quote:
Originally posted by ScreamingCockatoo:
quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
And of that, not a single whistle blower came forward? Not a cop? Not a witness? Not Dan Bongino or Kash Patel? Or the new head of the USSS? Not any of the conservative media that have done a great job exposing the J6 bomber, and other legitimate plots?

Yep, they are all in this together.

How did the USSS mess up so bad?
Complete incompetence?
That female agent fumbling with her sidearm is a good indicator of the condition of the USSS.

And a sniper being able to put a ladder up on a roof?
Really? More Keystone Kops Klownshow.

I deal stupidity everyday in my field.(educated professionals)
These same stupid people work elsewhere. Including all scopes of law enforcement.

DJT vs Kirk:

The female agents were Homeland Security, not USSS.
USSS has some pretty good training, and do their job well.
HOWEVER... During this time, who was running ".gov"? Yeah, that droolin idiot.

DJT's Detail was severely undermanned. I can only speculate as to the "Why".

DJT was running for president, and during election cycles, the USSS is spread pretty thin. They augmented the Protective Detail with Homeland Security. DHS Agents are, well... let's just say the "Paste eating cousin" of the Federal Agents at a family party. USSS / DEA et al don't really want to work with them, but the HAVE TO.

The guys in the green fatigues were USSS CAT (Counter Assault Team), those guys are good, like really good! But the first minute or so of that incident was an absolute shit show of epic proportions. They should have gotten DJT UP AND OUT OF THERE way quicker than they did.

PPD- Presidential Protective Detail, (as in they Agents who are around the President / Vice Pres / Former Pres & Vice Pres). Once DJT actually won the election, a few of the PPD Agents get assigned to the President (& Vice Pres) Elect, the rest of the detail is regular USSS Agents.

Regular USSS Agents are trained doing bodyguard details; basic stuff. Then they go out into the field and do counterfeiting, money laundering, credit card fraud... Financial Crime type stuff. When the Election Cycle comes up, some poor agent gets taken off their case, and stuck on a detail. The closer that candidate gets to the Primary Election, the larger the detail gets. So some agent in Topeka gets pulled off his cases, sent to New York on DJT's detail for a few months...

As to Charlie Kirks detail.
That's HIS detail, as in HIS security Team. Paid for by Turning Point. Private, not LE / USSS.
So tell me HOW local or federal Law Enforcement are involved in a personal protective detail?

November 17, 2025, 10:46 PM

CPD SIG

quote:
Originally posted by jljones:

As a said, a vast conspiracy is a tall order. Someone would have talked by now.

Here's one of the "most secretive" Tier One units in the United States Military, and how many of them have a movie deal, book deal?
Every swingin' dick that was on the Bin Laden raid has a book out or on a podcast when they get out of the Military.

So if they can't keep a secret, what makes anyone else believe that a bunch of people involved in an assassination could?

November 18, 2025, 05:40 AM

Bulldog7972

quote:
Originally posted by CPD SIG:
quote:
Originally posted by jljones:

As a said, a vast conspiracy is a tall order. Someone would have talked by now.

Here's one of the "most secretive" Tier One units in the United States Military, and how many of them have a movie deal, book deal?
Every swingin' dick that was on the Bin Laden raid has a book out or on a podcast when they get out of the Military.

So if they can't keep a secret, what makes anyone else believe that a bunch of people involved in an assassination could?

The Three T's rule applies here. Telephone, telegraph and tell a cop. There is no way a vast conspiracy like some are suggesting could occur without SOMEONE telling someone else. Incompetency, poor management, sure. But a plot of the magnitude some suggest involving more than one person? No way.

November 18, 2025, 09:24 AM

Fly-Sig

With all the law enforcement presence in and around the building in Butler that the shooter was on, it is entirely conceivable that it was not within the mindset of the officers that the building was a risk. A ladder could be ignored. Even comments of someone with a gun could be rationalized at first as being a fellow leo. Our assumptions thoroughly shape our perceptions.

I could believe that some upper level management was intentionally weak on providing Trump security. I don't see any way there was intentional carelessness within the officers on site.

November 18, 2025, 09:49 AM

P220 Smudge

I don't think any of us wants to believe it could be that easy to get as far as any of these shooters did. I know I don't. The mind wants to make sense of it, put order to it, anything that isn't the sheer chaos of a random lone gunman with free will and determination to see it through. The world is a scary place and polite society is a veneer, a story we tell ourselves that we mostly all agree upon.

November 18, 2025, 10:15 AM

Tuckerrnr1

Very well said.

November 18, 2025, 10:55 AM

pulicords

During my time in LE, I came to know an exceptionally good cop that worked for my municipal agency and went to the US Secret Service, where he did very well and retired as a manager. Even though he left our department for the federal agency, he remained vested in spirit and every year he'd attend our retiree get together. Awhile back, we were talking about our respect careers and he explained that one of the things that led him to go to the USSS was the idea that he'd be working with the "Best of the Best", since agents can be assigned to protect the most powerful man in the world (POTUS). He thought that instead of the usual situation he encountered working even a (generally) well respected agency like ours where he believed about 10% of the sworn personnel were "outstanding", about 10% "were nearly worthless", and about 80% were "simply average", the USSS had to be more like the top ten percent of the officers on our department, right? Wrong. When he got there and eventually served on the Presidential Protection Detail, he learned otherwise. The 10%/10%/80% numbers were pretty much the same. In his experience, the equation for whatever reason(s) always translated the same, whether it was working for a good local, state, or federal agency (he'd come to our department in California from another well respected municipal agency in Florida, before to the Secret Service), or working a specific detail.

My friend's assessment seemed very similar to what General Charles Yeager said in his biography about fellow fighter pilots he served with in WWII. A small percent were (like him) were hunter/killers that proactively sought the enemy to destroy them, a similarly small percent really wanted to avoid dogfights, and the vast majority were simply trying to do their job as necessary and go home in one piece.

November 18, 2025, 12:50 PM

xd45man

I listened to the SRS episode with Brian Harpole. The protection detail was joint between Kirk's private detail and the UVU police. I would recommend listening to the episode becase Harpole details out his AOR (Area of Responsibility) and what was his detail's responsibility and what was the responsibility of the university police. In fact, Harpole provided text messages between himself and the chief of the university police discussing the building the shooter was on and the chief responded with something like "I got you covered."

When something goes down like this, there are tons of would of, should of, could of. We don't really discuss the big issue which is mental illness and violence from the left.

November 18, 2025, 06:58 PM

TMats

I listened to it too. Aside from all the rumors, lies, and speculation about that fatal day, Harpole and his company deserved a platform to tell his story.

Harpole and his detail were responsible for the security of Charlie close in, which for all intents and purposes included the entire crowd of 3,000 in front of the tent. Harpole had 12 men, and from his narrative, all were very highly trained.

UVU was responsible for everything else, including as xd45man stated the rooftop where the shot came from, the one Harpole specifically asked about and was told by the campus police chief, was “covered.”

For those who don’t watch Sean Ryan, Harpole wanted drone coverage, has spent a lot of money on them, and has qualified pilots on staff; he was prevented from flying because of ordinances. UVU did not have drones, but Orem PD does. No request from UVU for either drone coverage, or additional officers, despite an active MOU. UVU had only 6 officers at the rally.

I went to UVU’s campus police website. The chief used the Kirk shooting as a reason to hire 8 more officers. If I read correctly, they had 30 officers the day Charlie was shot. They had 6 officers at the scene, even as the crowd estimate climbed from 1,000 to 1,500, to 3,000.

November 18, 2025, 07:27 PM

jljones

My experience in running the tactical side of large scale executive protection events, there is a lot to go wrong. Shortly after the Butler PA incident, I was given the task of coordinating a large scale protection gig. I was given 30 days to plan and nearly unlimited state local resources.

No one is on the same frequency. If I wanted to contact USSS, I had to radio the ops center. The guy manning my radio had to relay to the guy running the SS radio, and he put the word out to SS. Now factor a dozen local agencies, secret service and Capitol police.

The secret service trusts no one. They act like it, but they are very wary of anyone outside their inner circle. Therefore they share only what they have to.

You tie up a lot of resources dealing with weird people. I kept drones tied up longer that what I wanted.

Even with near unlimited resources, there are a lot of challenges.

November 18, 2025, 08:05 PM

CPD SIG

quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
Even with near unlimited resources, there are a lot of challenges.

Because:

quote:

No one is on the same frequency.

And I'm not talking just about the radio.

November 18, 2025, 08:37 PM

CPD SIG

quote:
Originally posted by TMats:

I went to UVU’s campus police website. The chief used the Kirk shooting as a reason to hire 8 more officers. If I read correctly, they had 30 officers the day Charlie was shot. They had 6 officers at the scene, even as the crowd estimate climbed from 1,000 to 1,500, to 3,000.

AFTER THE FACT.

A shooting / murder / assassination on your campus does not bode well. Especially for incoming students (Moreso their parents tuition money

)

If the Chief went to the Faculty and asked for 2 more Officers a week before the shooting, they would have politely told him to "pound sand, it's not in our budget".
After the fact, the Chief is going to get more manpower and more money.

(TMats- Please don't think I'm directing this at you! I'm just pointing out some facts for those "Why was this handled this way" crowd).

So UVU has 6 Officers working "at the scene" that day.
You're the boss, how many Officers are you going to put on that?

I'll bet that at least one, if not two were on overtime for that detail.
30 Total Officers-
1 big boss- He's not going on patrol. Down to 29
3 "Watch Commanders" / Shift Supervisors, probably not going on the street either.
Down to 26.
1 Admin person- 27.
27 broken into 3 shifts- 9 Per shift.
Factor in days off / vacation- 5 to 6.
Not everyone is going to be at that detail, because you need someone to watch out for the rest of the campus. So you pull a "Who wants some Overtime?" and you get a +1 or a +2.

Campus Cops. And not to detract from anyone who's a Campus Cop, but they're not really "the tip of the spear".

Local Cops? Why? "That's a Campus Police Problem, not ours." is the probable answer. Locals MIGHT send an extra car.
Again; WHY?

A lot, and when I say "A lot", I'll wager a shit-ton of money that it's going to hover near 100% of people went to bed on 10 Sept, never, ever, in a million years ever thought that not just one, not just two, not just three but FOUR...

FOUR BIG ASSED JETS.
Yeah, we all know the rest of the story.

"Hey Boss, you going to need any extra Cops on that Charlie Kirk thing today?"

"Naaa, why? Nothing is gonna hap..... OH FUCK!"

November 19, 2025, 03:02 PM

pulicords

quote:
Originally posted by CPD SIG:
quote:
Originally posted by TMats:

I went to UVU’s campus police website. The chief used the Kirk shooting as a reason to hire 8 more officers. If I read correctly, they had 30 officers the day Charlie was shot. They had 6 officers at the scene, even as the crowd estimate climbed from 1,000 to 1,500, to 3,000.

AFTER THE FACT.

A shooting / murder / assassination on your campus does not bode well. Especially for incoming students (Moreso their parents tuition money )

If the Chief went to the Faculty and asked for 2 more Officers a week before the shooting, they would have politely told him to "pound sand, it's not in our budget".
After the fact, the Chief is going to get more manpower and more money.

(TMats- Please don't think I'm directing this at you! I'm just pointing out some facts for those "Why was this handled this way" crowd).

So UVU has 6 Officers working "at the scene" that day.
You're the boss, how many Officers are you going to put on that?

I'll bet that at least one, if not two were on overtime for that detail.
30 Total Officers-
1 big boss- He's not going on patrol. Down to 29
3 "Watch Commanders" / Shift Supervisors, probably not going on the street either.
Down to 26.
1 Admin person- 27.
27 broken into 3 shifts- 9 Per shift.
Factor in days off / vacation- 5 to 6.
Not everyone is going to be at that detail, because you need someone to watch out for the rest of the campus. So you pull a "Who wants some Overtime?" and you get a +1 or a +2.

Campus Cops. And not to detract from anyone who's a Campus Cop, but they're not really "the tip of the spear".

Local Cops? Why? "That's a Campus Police Problem, not ours." is the probable answer. Locals MIGHT send an extra car.
Again; WHY?

A lot, and when I say "A lot", I'll wager a shit-ton of money that it's going to hover near 100% of people went to bed on 10 Sept, never, ever, in a million years ever thought that not just one, not just two, not just three but FOUR...

FOUR BIG ASSED JETS.
Yeah, we all know the rest of the story.

"Hey Boss, you going to need any extra Cops on that Charlie Kirk thing today?"

"Naaa, why? Nothing is gonna hap..... OH FUCK!"

Not long after I retired from my position as a LEO in So. CA, I met a police officer from Oslo (Norway) while on vacation. The officer and I spoke about local crime trends and the risk he and fellow officers dealt with regarding terrorist threats. Unfortunately, their lack of 24/7/365 air assets even in the capital was dismissed by local politicians as being unnecessary and far too expensive (in his/their opinion). Less than a year after my visit, a "far right-wing" domestic terrorist did strike (on 7/22/2011), bombing government buildings in the city as a diversion and then striking Utøya Island where kids were attending a summer camp. The police didn't have the needed air asset and 77 people (mostly kids) were murdered on the island while tactical officers were unnecessarily delayed getting to the scene using a boat(s).

It wasn't a campus, but the same "It can't happen here!" attitude prevailed among non-LE government members that held/hold the purse strings for the police department's budget. How do you change that attitude, when those in charge don't have the training or even the interest in history dealing with these events? I wish I knew, but listening isn't as important to these people as talking (to constituents) is, and I guess all we can do is to try and (after the shit hits the fan) attempt to hold them accountable. BTW: Early in my career, I was a police officer for a local community college. We had administrators like the one(s) being discussed here, but at least they were willing to hire off-duty officers from neighboring agencies when staff shortages were acute and there were safety issues that our campus police manager could/would articulate clearly.