Finally got the recall notice on the airbag inflators on my '12 Corolla.

Decided I hadn't had a good laugh in a while so I cruised the showroom while waiting for it.

Cheesy Rice! Looked at Highlanders - $38-$42K! Tundras about the same. Tacos $35-$38K.

Saw a refrigerator white Highlander with a "Presidents Day Sale" tag @ $26,xxx "Hah," sez I, "That's more like it!" Yeah...Right...2016 with 50xxx miles on it.

Never intended to actually do anything but was still shocked at the price tags. Then I got home and looked up KBB on my '12 Corolla with 34,xxx miles on it.

$6 to $7K. Horse. Shit. That's never gonna happen. I'll drive the wheels off it first, assuming I live that long. The paid for '13 Tundra is looking pretty good about now too.

The divide right now in features between new cars and cars even 3-5 years old is probably the greatest it has been in decades. The safety technology available in relatively entry-level vehicles (adaptive cruise, lane keep assist, forward collision braking, cross traffic alert, etc.) is so far ahead what was out there five years ago that I think the value proposition on a lot of used cars is significantly impacted. Some of the tech features (even things like Apple Carplay and Android Auto) that are best universal today may not have been available on a lot of cars even 2-3 years ago.

My wife got a new CRV last year. It was a shade under $30k. It was expensive, but the 2016 we drove was $25k and missing all of the safety features I mentioned. They were STANDARD on all but the base trim CRV. Between our perception of the value of those features and belief that it would significantly aid resale in a few years, the $4500 increase in price was beyond obvious.

Look at what new truck prices have done to used truck prices!

While I can get unheard of value for my used 2005 Z71 with 140k miles, to buy a comparable truck...not new...just 10 years newer, is insane! Not to mention a brand new version.

I've had some mechanical issues with my truck in the last few weeks and, while the mechanic had it, we toyed with the idea of either getting another truck or going to one vehicle as a family. (Other vehicle is 2017 Expedition, bought new)

Well, we can't afford another truck and we've confirmed, yet again, that being a one vehicle family won't work. Kids to school, work meetings, baseball, church, etc, as well as the eventuality of maintenance or trouble with the one vehicle.

Them's the breaks...

I hear ya. Last car I bought was a used Honda Civic for the college bound kid. Paid just under $7K.

And 15 year old Honda Pilot that runs great with 175K on it, has a least another 75-100K in her.

Not to mention that many of the new safety features are things I don’t need or even don’t want and look for ways to disable.

Passive features are one thing. But I don’t want any features that would actively brake or steer. Didn’t realize until after buying the car and reading the manual.

So paying for features I don’t want, let alone don’t need.

quote:

The safety technology available in relatively entry-level vehicles (adaptive cruise, lane keep assist, forward collision braking, cross traffic alert, etc

I don't see these as safety features. Hand holding for people who can't focus attention on driving -maybe. Expensive repairs in the future-likely

Whatever they are called, don’t need or want them. Unfortunately they come stock and I have to pay for them.

I do like VSC and ABS. But most of the new things I don’t like.

Have you guys driven a car with any of this stuff? I really had no particular interest in any of it, but my Tahoe came with it. The lane keep assist is relatively eye-opening. The forward braking has only triggered a couple times and both times where I was already reacting to what I saw (but before I could move my foot all the way to the pedal. It really is amazing stuff that will reduce collisions.

Paul, I'm a gearhead and subscribe to two popular car magazines. I laugh at the comparisons on the new vehicles. A loaded Nissan Altima for $36K? Why? The Big Three 1/2 ton pickups, all loaded trim packages ranging from $59-70K? What the hell?

I will continue to drive my 02 Civic until the wheels fall off.

I do laugh at the many people with new cars, living paycheck to paycheck, no money for emergencies, and not contributing to retirement. But hey, you've got a tricked out rig! A cop and a nurse couple (neighbors) have a new, top of the line Lexus SUV ($65-70K) and new F150 (tricked out, lifted, $50-60K) and two kids in private school. WTH? I guess if you're pulling down $200K in combined salaries with at least one guaranteed pension, why not have $1500-2000 in monthly car payment. I guess I'm the sap.

How well do they handle exceptions and errors? What if the collision system mistakenly detects something for which it brakes hard? At freeway speeds on a curve?

Still nope. I don’t want anything that will supersede my steering and braking inputs. Beep okay but keep your hands off my ability to control the car. Especially when the system is wrong.

Another thing to consider regarding all these added doo-dads:

Up until my last couple of vehicle purchases, I considered extended warranties to be a dealer cash cow and a waste of money right up there with fabric treatments.

Given that this shit WILL break down and quite likely require dealer-only equipment and parts to repair AND dealer shop rates well into 3 figures per hour, the extra $1000-$1500 will likely pay for itself if you keep the car more than 4-5 years.

Future step-son was involved in an accident a couple weeks ago. Thankfully he wasn't hurt and there were no other vehicles involved. However, the first estimate from a local body shop came in at almost $7K (on a $4K car) and they weren't interested in just making it roadworthy again so I've got a buddy in the business that's going to replace the front bumper, headlight, grill, taillight and do a little metal bending for a fair amount less. It won't be pretty, but it will get him though college as long as he doesn't wreck it beyond repair.


While we were waiting for my buddy to look at it, future wife 2.0 and I went looking at new vehicles just to explore our options (thinking she might sell her car to her son and apply that towards a new vehicle). Looked at Jeep Cherokee and Grand Cherokee - back seats were too small. We did test drive a new RAM (back seats in the crew cab are HUGE), but dang those prices are up there. Pretty easy to be in over $50K for a new one with the amenities she'd want. That's not going to happen anytime soon.

All the old vehicles will die eventually. By then electric cars will be mandatory.

I bought that used Juke last year after looking at new ones. The CHEAPEST little tuna can was $23,000 up. I wanted AWD, which tacked on a princely sum.

FINALLY I found a pre owned AWD with no options.

Cloth seats, plastic panels, regular radio and knob controlled climate system.

All the others had back up cameras, GPS, touch screen radio, touch screen climate control, leather, cloth covered panels, expensive floor mats, special wheels, metallic paint, expensive speakers and MAYBE AWD.

Just a nightmare of electric awaiting to break.

Got the used car for $13000 out the door.

Now I'm on the hunt for a truck. The CHEAPEST Nissan is pushing over $30k.

A NEW engine for my old Frontier pulled from a Fukashima disaster van is $900 delivered. I think I'll just go that route.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
How well do they handle exceptions and errors? What if the collision system mistakenly detects something for which it brakes hard? At freeway speeds on a curve?

Still nope. I don’t want anything that will supersede my steering and braking inputs. Beep okay but keep your hands off my ability to control the car. Especially when the system is wrong.

Can't say I've ever seen it be wrong. The lane keep assist in both my Chevy and my wife's Honda is easily overcome by steering input if you want it to be. It is truly only an assist. Using the turn signal also disables it and it only works where the system can see and interpret pavement markings. It tells you when it is activated. I have never seen it decide there are markings where there are not. There are also some YouTube videos showing the forward collision braking failing to see an object during a demonstration and the car crashing into it. Reinforces the feature as an assist technology only.

The newest Cadillac products have available "super cruise" autonomous driving on most or maybe all of the interstate highway system (GM laser mapped it). Tesla's autopilot keeps getting smarter and more capable. Even the newest Kia products are anticipated to have some semi autonomous driving features this year. There is no question that we are marching towards greater automation of driving and anybody who seriously believes it's going away or they can stop it is sorely mistaken. The most common argument made is simply one of distrust, but historically there same could be said for all manner of technologies. How many old mechanics do you know who don't believe that computer controlled engines are a good idea.

To succeed, automated driving only really has to make fewer errors than a human driver. It doesn't have to be perfect.

I plan to buy a brand new GMC Sierra SLT with 4 WD and all the buttons. Right after I pick up my lottery check.


Until then, I will buy trucks in the 20-40K miles, used category, and I will like them fine, thank you.

I got nearly what I paid for it OTD after 5 years excellent service, and granted it had nearly 100k on it when I sold it in 2010, units similar to my 2005 model Ram 2500 4x4 currently are being advertised for nearly what I gave for it **NEW** 15 years ago!!!

quote:

Originally posted by DaBigBR:
Have you guys driven a car with any of this stuff? I really had no particular interest in any of it, but my Tahoe came with it. The lane keep assist is relatively eye-opening. The forward braking has only triggered a couple times and both times where I was already reacting to what I saw (but before I could move my foot all the way to the pedal. It really is amazing stuff that will reduce collisions.

The cross traffic alert and back up cameras are my favorite. With everyone have big SUV’s it makes backing out of a parking spot a task in hoping the drivers coming down the isles are paying attention.

With cross traffic alert you will know if someone is even walking somewhere behind you as the system will see what’s behind and to the sides of you way before you would be able to see them yourself no matter how well your paying attention.

quote:

Originally posted by PHPaul:
Another thing to consider regarding all these added doo-dads:

Up until my last couple of vehicle purchases, I considered extended warranties to be a dealer cash cow and a waste of money right up there with fabric treatments.

Given that this shit WILL break down and quite likely require dealer-only equipment and parts to repair AND dealer shop rates well into 3 figures per hour, the extra $1000-$1500 will likely pay for itself if you keep the car more than 4-5 years.

Read those extended warranties carefully. The ones I've read conveniently leave out the do dads.

I'm not a big fan of government mandated equipment but I am glad that manufacturers started putting rear view cameras in cars and trucks. Don't think it should be mandatory but I wouldn't buy another vehicle without one if they were optional.