National debt and our future

March 06, 2021, 10:14 AM

goose5

The debt will be paid off when the people insist as a prerequisite for their vote that the debt be paid off. Politicians are doing what they are doing because we the people are allowing them to do it.

March 06, 2021, 10:30 AM

LS1 GTO

Before it exceeds the GDP, Congress will rework the formula on how GDP is calculated (a la national debt and Clinton).

If a Democrat does this, the report will be how we've become more modern and realize the errors in the formula.

If a Republican does this, it'll be because he (or she) is evil and hates minorities and women.

Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.

"If dogs don't go to Heaven, I want to go where they go" Will Rogers

The definition of the words we used, carry a meaning of their own...

March 06, 2021, 10:39 AM

old rugged cross

The plan is to enslave the populace. Take from those who have and resistant and exterminate them to provide for the enslaved for their welfare.

While maybe an extreme view. We are watching it play out in real time.

It is not something that this planet has not seen before.

If you have a ball and chain around your ankle. You have no options

March 06, 2021, 10:50 AM

Woodman

https://www.usdebtclock.org

Currently $85K per person. $224K per TAXpayer.

March 06, 2021, 10:53 AM

braillediver

quote:
Currently, the public share of the $27.9 trillion national debt comes to $21.8 trillion, or a little above 100% of GDP.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/1...imulus-cbo-says.html

March 06, 2021, 11:07 AM

dking271

The end game is to weaken the financial standing of our country. I believe there is a long plan for a global reset. Who and why, who cares? The disintegration of the American ideals with the implementation of a socialistic group think and a mindset of victimoness is first needed before any such thing could happen. Two competing ideals that can not coexist and a country that needs to decide to go one way or the other. This is not historically new, it is following playbooks of the past.

Is it something you can control? If yes, then do what you can to affect such things. Let’s vote in people that won’t allow such things to happen. If you can not control, then move on to other things within the purview of your control. Keep your own balance sheet healthy and prepare yourself for whatever may come. Support the grass roots efforts to control local and state politics. The federal government gets its power from the consent to be governed. The states can make the the federal government irrelevant and the left wrote the playbook by selective enforcement of federal laws.

March 06, 2021, 11:08 AM

bdylan

The country is truly teetering at the abyss, but folks like to pretend it's the same as it ever was. Reality is defeatism in modern America.

March 06, 2021, 11:54 AM

BBMW

By this basis, that will be never. On a percentage of population basis, very few care, and lots want free services from the government.

At some point the debt will be some combination of inflated away and/or defaulted on. Note that every nickel of what at the time was a huge debt run up to pay for WWII is sill there, but inflation has been such since then that it's a tiny percentage of the current national debt.

quote:
Originally posted by goose5:
The debt will be paid off when the people insist as a prerequisite for their vote that the debt be paid off. Politicians are doing what they are doing because we the people are allowing them to do it.

March 06, 2021, 12:26 PM

smschulz

quote:
Originally posted by sigalert:
Looking for opinions. Personally, I can’t see any way we pay it off. Any thoughts on the ramifications of debt exceeding our GDP?

Are we going to become Greece?

I am afraid so.
When? That is hard to tell we have a lot of GDP compared to Greece so it may take a bit longer.

March 06, 2021, 02:28 PM

LS1 GTO

So here's how you kind of figure it out.

The government lends out $100 (for this example, the prime interest rate and inflation cancel each other out)

Taxes on the $100 = 12% which means the government realized a $12 profit.

But, it takes $10 (of the $12) to run the government. So, we now have $2 remaining

The government decided they have a leftover amount and decide those who can't, didn't, or won't contribute to that original 12% need "free" money to "survive" on and hence, the government gives away the $2 and promises an additional $2 for others who have an unbearable life due to their "status."

The government is not going to go broke so the taxes are raised an additional 3% and viola, they now have an extra $1.

So, now what to do with that extra $1.

March 06, 2021, 02:34 PM

sigcrazy7

Everybody who worries about the national debt should be more concerned with demographic changes. Becoming Japan should be more worrying then becoming Greece.

March 06, 2021, 02:35 PM

nhracecraft

Unfortunately, I do NOT believe our future will require 'shades' unless Para's Comet gives some advanced notice!

____________________________________________________________

If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much, is Just Enough !!
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Live Free or Die!

March 06, 2021, 03:00 PM

Flash-LB

quote:
Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
Everybody who worries about the national debt should be more concerned with demographic changes. Becoming Japan should be more worrying then becoming Greece.

I'm curious. What's wrong with becoming Japan?

I'm more worried about becoming Africa.

March 06, 2021, 03:04 PM

LS1 GTO

quote:
Originally posted by Flash-LB:
quote:
Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
Everybody who worries about the national debt should be more concerned with demographic changes. Becoming Japan should be more worrying then becoming Greece.

I'm curious. What's wrong with becoming Japan?

I'm more worried about becoming Africa.

Japan's culture is one where a normal work week is 60 hours and to get "ahead" one should be in the 80 hour range.

My bigger fear is to be like a France with a hint of Idi Amin leadership style thrown in for good measure.

March 06, 2021, 03:48 PM

Sig209

i agree its a problem.

i also agree that NEITHER party seems much interested in addressing it.

we shall see.

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March 06, 2021, 04:01 PM

Flash-LB

quote:
Originally posted by LS1 GTO:
quote:
Originally posted by Flash-LB:
quote:
Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
Everybody who worries about the national debt should be more concerned with demographic changes. Becoming Japan should be more worrying then becoming Greece.

I'm curious. What's wrong with becoming Japan?

I'm more worried about becoming Africa.

Japan's culture is one where a normal work week is 60 hours and to get "ahead" one should be in the 80 hour range.

My bigger fear is to be like a France with a hint of Idi Amin leadership style thrown in for good measure.

Those are exactly the hours that Electronic and Mechanical Engineers worked in the places that I was employed in for years. 60 hours to keep your job and 80 to get promoted.

Then I started my own company and longed for the good old days of 60~80 hour weeks. I worked 80~100 hour weeks when I ran my own company.

Thanks for your input.

P.S. I worked in Tokyo for 2 months way back when doing an Engineering Evaluation of the world's first trixial laser and a subsequent technology transfer, but we only worked 60 hour weeks there.

March 06, 2021, 04:20 PM

sigcrazy7

I’m talking about the demographics of Japan, not the culture. If instead of a pyramid, the demographic aging map looks like a funnel, then hard times are ahead. There won’t be a large enough tax base to support the aging population. It is not enough to just have a population save for retirement. There has to be enough people in the work force to provide all the necessary goods and services required, and yes, also service the national debt through their productivity.

March 06, 2021, 05:11 PM

asonie

Not an economist.

The national debt will never be paid back, at least not in the same way you and I would pay off a car or a mortgage. As others have said it will be inflated away barring a cataclysmic crash and default.

I read recently that if you printed out the national debt in $1 bills and stacked them it would take roughly 10 seconds to make it from one end to the other if you were traveling at the speed of light. I don’t know if that’s true but it’s believable.

Honestly I’d have thought the reckoning would have come by now. Any hope of actually paying off the debt is so far gone now I’ve come to believe that the debt total is effectively meaningless. Until the day comes when it isn’t and that day will suck.

March 06, 2021, 06:02 PM

220-9er

It's rare that we even have a balanced budget and I don't think we've ever really paid down the debt.
Even the years with a supposedly balanced budget, they counted money for the social security trust fund as income, not something kept separate so it really wasn't balanced then.
Most other countries are in even worse shape than us, if that means anything.