...unless said horse is in a horse trailer attached to a truck being driven. One rides a horse, n'est-ce pas? Neither does one pilot a horse, or operate a horse. One may operate on a horse; perhaps even be a pilot operating on a horse while being driven- by someone else, naturally. I should think it near impossible for a pilot to operate on a horse while simultaneously driving.

Let us reconcile our terminology.

Horseman Arrested for DUI

Was the horse drunk?

The article was about riding a saddled horse. Also, most DUI articles state the actual measured BAC not the ambiguous "may have been impaired." Could be shitty reporting or lackluster Public Affairs liaison.

BTW, in the horse world, I think driving is a term reserved for horse and buggy.

One would drive the buggy, not the horse. That is to say, the horse would be pulling the buggy, not driving it. I suppose it might be possible for a horse to drive a buggy, in which case an additional horse would be required; one to drive and one to pull. As to which assignment for each of the two horses, these are details which would need to be worked out. I suggest consulting a pilot at that point. The horses would be of no help. In the decision-making process, that is.

The article also states “ rules of the road apply to even those operating animals on the highway.”
Was said horse equipped with lights and registered with a license plate? How about insurance?

Yes, "operating animals". Absurd.

Unless we are talking about a horse surgeon. That is to say, a horse which happens to be a surgeon. Their lack of dexterity would prove to be a severe impediment, not to mention the fact that they are horses.

Monkey surgeons would possess greater dexterity, but they are far too impulsive and apt to rip your spleen from your body and go bounding about the OR. And all that horrible screeching. Obtaining malpractice insurance would be a tremendous challenge.

Sorry, what were we talking about?

I can't speak for whatever absurdity is going on in California, but I used to discuss this at length with my former friend who was a MSP Trooper for 20 years in a district that had a lot of Amish.

In Michigan the law reads "... operating a motor vehicle while under the intoxicating..." Motor vehicle is any mechanism that is driven forward under its own power by some mechanical means (electric motor, internal combustion engine, steam engine, electric fan plugged in with a long cord) but excludes human power (pedaled, cranked, vigorous arm flapping, etc) and certainly doesn't pertain to horses.

Most of the Amish horses were well trained and if going home or to a common destination at a routine time, didn't need a driver. They would go there all by themselves. You could even see a horse occasionally pulling an empty wagon or buckboard on its way to retrieve it's owner from work or kids from school. It's how my grandfather did it before cars so why not now.

Now, a horse typically won't respect traffic control devices as it has no idea how to interpret them. In a rural area it isn't much of an issue as it's not like they are super fast and are going to sneak up on you.

It wasn't uncommon for them to cruise by a wagon and see the driver passed out in the seat. Granted there are other charges that can be used here but DUI or OUIL are not applicable. Yes, they knew who it was, where he was going, and often if not far from home would just continue on patrol and let the horse handle it.

Occasionally if one got a little rowdy and decided to take the rein's so to speak (yup, I really went there...) and was becoming a hazard they would have to stop him. Again, other public intoxication laws applied. Often they'd just let the horse take the buggy home.

In PA, there was one of those “funny case” stories, where a judge threw out a case against a man in a buggy, telling the prosecutor “the man was drunk, not the horse”

Truthfully, drunk in a buggy, probably just means the horse goes back to his stable.

Drunk on horseback is more dangerous, but doesn’t seem to be driving.

PI, maybe.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
One would drive the buggy, not the horse. That is to say, the horse would be pulling the buggy, not driving it.

I know it's a tangent and I hate to be contrary, but all of the driving inputs are provided to the horse not the buggy. The buggy is just along for the ride.

It's been many years, but I've driven a horse and buggy while on Mackinac Island (a car free island in Michigan). The driver gives verbal commands and uses the reins to provide the horse direction. Theoretically (i.e. hopefully the horse cooperates), you tug on right rein and the horse steers right, tug on the left rein and the horse steers left, and tug on both reins to get the horse to stop. Getting the horse to start moving was the most frustrating part, and second most frustrating was at a crossroads where the horse had a different directional goal (e.g. shortest way back to the barn to get rid of the dumb ass tourists) than I did.

I must counter your contrary, you're still driving the buggy, just doing it through the horse. It would be analogous to working the steering wheel of an automobile- you're not driving the wheel, you're driving the vehicle through the wheel.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
One would drive the buggy, not the horse.

In plowing a field using horses, the farmer is driving the horses, not the plow. This is probably where the term originated, and is carried over to wheeled attachments, such as the stagecoach, or a hitch (like the Clydesdales) pulling a wagon. The driver sits in the seat and drives his team of horses. There are many "horse driving" competitions. They are not called buggy driving competitions.

I suppose you could drive a horse forward, depending on your relationship and how encouraging the horse found your words.

“Come on boy, just a little further, keep going”

Maybe that’s giving the horse the drive.

I used to work with a guy that got stopped for riding his horse while drinking . If I remember the story correctly he wasn't arrested though . Small town and he knew everybody .
This same guy also had a moonshine still at his hunting camp . He used to bring a couple of bottles to our cookouts . Damn good stuff . He said that he would give some to the Judges and other politicians in his Parish so that's why he never got busted . I believed him . Quite a character .

There's an Amish community nearby & drunk-driving buggies can be an issue at times.
Basically, they can be charged & treated as if driving a car if they are on the road. I know someone who was sleeping one off in his buggy & woke up in jail. The horse was loose, decided it was time to go home & the police stopped it because they didn't see a driver.

Buggies also have to have lighting & turn signals - no brake lights if they don't have brakes, but slow-moving-vehicle signs. I'm not sure if there are insurance/registration requirements - there should be if they are using public roads, but since they don't pay taxes that's probably left off too.

Not to beat a dead horse, but Merriam-Webster says:

“4a
: to direct the motions and course of (a draft animal); drive an ox”

In the case of a horse pulling a buggy or plow, the horse is a draft animal and is being driven. The case of a rider on a horse is a horse of a different color, the horse is not being used as a draft animal; therefore, by definition, the horse is not being driven.

A horse is certainly not a motor vehicle. If the laws the man was arrested under are specific to motor vehicles, I suspect the judge would have horse sense and the man will win by a nose.

There was a period in my life where I was horseback every working day for two solid years. I’m smiling now because I recall a night that I stayed too long in the camp of some folks I met. I was sure some form of drunk. I have a distinct memory of my horse swinging his head back towards me as I stood ready to get on. He seemed to be saying, “Da fuq is wrong with you?” As horses will do in situations like that (or total darkness), he just took me back to my camp, no problem. Fwiw, I couldn’t imagine being horseback somewhere that I’d encounter CHP, even if I was sober as a judge.

'Tis humor, dear fellows. Consult your monkey surgeon for further details.

Was the horse intoxicated?

Next up is to stake out bars waiting for blind guys leaving with a service dog.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
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Those horses live their lives 1/4 mile at a time.