I haven’t seen any mention about the recent nerve agent attack on a former UK spy by the Russians. Link: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43415271

While I get why they are less than happy with him, this seems a tad aggressive as he came to the UK in a prisoner (spy) swap. This isn’t the first time it has happened as well. Last time they used polonium. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...Alexander_Litvinenko

For those that might know, is this common and/or have we done it too?

So some former spy was eating lunch with his kid and some 30 other people, and some assassin released a nerve agent in the pub?

That's pretty F'ed up.

Why not just have a guy pop him in the head while he was eating. Less incidental blowback.

quote:

Why not just have a guy pop him in the head while he was eating. Less incidental blowback.

Because Putin intends for these killings to be an object lesson for his enemies.
He is after the blowback, it shows everyone how ruthless he is. He thinks that he is a modern day Stalin.

I am very skeptical on this and would like to know what the ironclad evidence is that it is an official Russian government (or Putin) hit.

There are so many other discreet ways to kill someone you really want to kill, without invoking the world-condemning and messy method of using banned nerve agents. It sounds like something Kim Jong Un would do.

Maybe the CIA should take out Edward Snowden in Russia as retalliation.

I saw a post about this a day or two ago and couldn't find any good info about it online. just a couple "we will update this article later" type things. This article was updated 1 hour ago, but doesn't say when it happened, yet the attack happened March 4th? I searched it again today, and there's a whole lot more articles about it.

I guess I'm almost surprised that there's not more info, speculation, outrage, or general coverage on it?

One comment I saw was a response to asking how Putin could think this was acceptable. The response said because Putin knows no one in Europe has the balls to do shit about it.

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:
< snip >
For those that might know, is this common and/or have we done it too?

The general rule in governmental intelligence is you do not kill people, even if they were one your side, chose to betray you, and made it to the "other side" via escape or personnel exchange. Doing so, especially with means that only a nation-state can field, leads to the kinds of diplomatic repercussions Russia is seeing now. It is also counter-productive, as in the future the nation where the person lives may not be willing to deal with you in the future on personnel exchanges.

That said, there are many examples of an antagonized or betrayed country killing people on the "other side."

The best American example was the Phoenix Program during the Vietnam war.

Another failed effort was the CIA's multiple attempts to assassinate Fidel Castro. We also tried to whack Patrice Lumumba of Congo, and the Dominican dictator Rafael Trujillo.

Today, we use armed drones firing Hellfire missiles or small teams of CIA and/or military personnel to conduct "capture or kill" missions. Since 2001 there have been thousands of these missions.

In the espionage/intelligence world the Israels and Russians are the best and most prolific to retaliatory killings. The Israeli's
Operation "Wrath of God"targeted the terrorists from the 1972 Olympic attack. The Russians killed Georgi Markov using ricin, and Alexander Litvinenko with polonium. There is a long Wikipage on the Russians killings.

I recall reading where they went after his daughter as well

I've stayed away from this one after getting flamed on a couple of occasions for mentioning what appeared to be terrorist-related subjects over here in UK that are of no concern [I'm advised] to Americans.

All I can tell you is that as of right now, 23 Russian dips are heading home, and 23 British dips are doing the same, and the UN has passed a censure on the Russian Federation for using chemical weapons, namely the ultra-rare RUSSIAN-invented binary nerve agent, Novichok, against a sovereign nation.

The first to the scene was a police sergeant, who is nearly as ill as the victim and his daughter are, and the centre of Salisbury is closed off while military personnel and techies from the UK Chemical Defence Centre Porton Down decontaminate the entire place.

A number of other people have been affected to a lesser degree.

The Russian UN ambassador has pooh-hooed the whole thing as a storm in the teacup, accusing the Brits of behaving like the Inspector LeStrade of Sherlock Holmes fame in their inept handling of the affair.

tac

quote:

Originally posted by Crom:
I am very skeptical on this and would like to know what the ironclad evidence is that it is an official Russian government (or Putin) hit.

From what I have read on the BBC over the last few days, it’s the nature of the nerve agent used. Allegedly it’s even more rare than what North Korea used last year in the assasination of Kim Jung Un’s 1/2 brother. According to the UK it’s so rare, that it would have to come from an advanced state. The evidence seems also clear that Russia took out another ex pat using Polonium which is highly radioactive and not something you could buy off of Amazon. It’s rather astonishing how blatant Putin is right now IMHO.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BB61,

The class of agent used was exclusive to the Russian (then Soviet) chemical weapons program. No other nation developed similar agents, nor did the USSR distribute the agent to its allies. If the UK is correct on the agent used, then either the Russian government sanctioned its use, or the Russian government has lost control of a very advanced, very potent chemical weapon.

They didn't have to release gas into the pub. They could have simply applied the agent (in a very small, nearly invisible amount) to an item that would be touched by the target. Silverware, dishes, table, etc. Alternately, you could simply brush up against the target with an object contaminated with the agent. The agent is effective when absorbed through the skin. Cross contamination from the target then takes down the first responder.

Novichok class agents were designed to be undetectable by then current detection methods, effective in minute amounts, stable and safe until mixed, and to circumvent then current protective gear. Scary, scary stuff that is a generation beyond VX.

Given that the first responder was also placed in critical condition, I would think that a likely scenario would be that the victims ingested the agent somehow, were found non-responsive, and the first responder got dosed when attempting to perform CPR.

This is a VERY Russian style hit. They like poison. They like exotic poisons that send a message. Ricin, Polonium 210, and now this.

quote:

Originally posted by tacfoley:
I've stayed away from this one after getting flamed on a couple of occasions for mentioning what appeared to be terrorist-related subjects over here in UK that are of no concern [I'm advised] to Americans.
tac

That is short-sighted of certain members then. Terrorism in one western country impacts us all.

It’s not surprising the Russians deny everything, I would expect nothing else. It really seems like retaliation on a certain level is needed. Maybe not James Bond type but more than sending some boys and girls home and a naughty naughty comment from the government and its allies.

quote:

Originally posted by copaup:
The class of agent used was exclusive to the Russian (then Soviet) chemical weapons program. No other nation developed similar agents, nor did the USSR distribute the agent to its allies. If the UK is correct on the agent used, then either the Russian government sanctioned its use, or the Russian government has lost control of a very advanced, very potent chemical weapon.

They didn't have to release gas into the pub. They could have simply applied the agent (in a very small, nearly invisible amount) to an item that would be touched by the target. Silverware, dishes, table, etc. Alternately, you could simply brush up against the target with an object contaminated with the agent. The agent is effective when absorbed through the skin. Cross contamination from the target then takes down the first responder.

Novichok class agents were designed to be undetectable by then current detection methods, effective in minute amounts, stable and safe until mixed, and to circumvent then current protective gear. Scary, scary stuff that is a generation beyond VX.

Thanks for posting that. I signed a piece of paper that advised me of all the things that might go wrong with my life if I'd ever publicly mentioned what you just did.

tac

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:
Why not just have a guy pop him in the head while he was eating. Less incidental blowback.

High shock value. Makes a statement to the world.

That’s why we’re talking about it and that’s why Putin used a chemical agent in the Ukraine and polonium against that other guy in the UK.