Way to go Justice Gorsuch (Timbs v. Indiana case before the SC re Civil Asset Forfeiture, the 8th Amendment, and more.)

November 30, 2018, 05:54 AM

I don't completely oppose CAF. Hypothetical drug deal. If you catch them red-handed, it would be OK to seize the cash directly involved in the drug deal, to be held as evidence until the case is decided. ETA: until the case is decided, you don't get to keep, let alone spend, the cash. I want, however, due process for both the seizure and its recovery if wrongly (mistakenly or not) seized.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: egregore,

November 30, 2018, 05:59 AM

parabellum

You can just forget about due process. How many times have you heard of seized property being returned to its owner? Such instances are as rare as hens teeth.

CAF is law enforcement's shopping mall. All sorts of luxury items, just there for the taking, and anyone who thinks these abuses are not happening and are not widespread is fooling themselves.

I'll go further than that- for as long as these laws exist, they will be horribly abused. The only way to stop the abuse of these laws is to revoke them, and in my opinion, that's exactly what should happen. The cops don't want some crook living the high life off of proceeds from criminal enterprise? Well, then, the police shouldn't have abused these laws, should they? Two wrongs don't make a right.

November 30, 2018, 08:07 AM

joel9507

quote:
Originally posted by dewhorse:
To quote her " that's some Ukrainian bullshit right there"

That's it, in a nutshell.

Earth to LEOs: You want to confiscate something? Use legal means, and go through the courts. Suspicion by itself isn't worth the ether it's floating through.

November 30, 2018, 09:10 AM

a1abdj

quote:
So, its ok, according to your principal, for a Gang, even an individual to profit off of illegal activity?

Isn't that exactly what the police are doing? Profiting off of illegal proceeds?

November 30, 2018, 01:25 PM

nhtagmember

wasn't there an entire unit set up by the Kentucky State Police who's sole purpose in life was to look for high value targets, stop them, invent probable cause and seize as much as they could

I thought the jig was up when they tried to shake down an off-duty trooper for the cash he had on him

get rid of it, if it is that important, build the case first, then seize it

or...

if you seize it and you're wrong, it costs you your job

either way, its the gift that keeps on taking and I think it sucks

November 30, 2018, 02:18 PM

slosig

quote:
Originally posted by wrightd:
I had to carry 10K in cash once to deposit at my bank. I was nervous carrying that amount of cash and it wasn't my choice to receive that money in the form of cash but it was the way it ended up. Funny thing though I wasn't afraid of being robbed or having the cash stolen in a hospital or a morgue after a car accident. I was afraid of the police taking it, legally or otherwise during a traffic stop, unlawful search etc. These days I'm more afraid of police officers than common criminals. I would probably feel differently if I lived in a bad part of town but I don't. I don't encounter police very often since I'm honest exceedingly boring and pitifully law abiding, but based on the spotty quality of people being hired these days and the low character and poor ethics displayed by a generally predictable percentage working in government, I no longer automatically trust police in general and sometimes fear them outright. You know our policing and justice systems are screwed up when law abiding citizens of good character fear the police, justice systems, and governments more than any common criminal or scammer.

I know this will piss off our good officers in this thread but my rif isn't about the good people in policing, justice, and governments. It's about the high percentage of very bad apples in all three. The proportion of honest people in these fields should be equal to or higher than the rest of us honest and hard working six pack joes, but unfortunately it's lower and sometimes by a lot. It's hard to resist a criminal with a gun when the criminal is exercising their crime on behalf of their government employer. Disgusting isn't enough to describe it.

There I said it so let the arrows fly.

Do you have any data to back up your assertions about the percentage of bad cops? Anecdotally, that does not match my experience at all. I have over the course of my life run across maybe one or two cops who could have been nicer in this situation or that, but the overwhelming majority of officers I have had any contact with have been extremely professional. I have many times been amazed by the amount of BS they put up with and continue to respond politely and professionally. If the quality of officers has gone down, it has not been evident in the ones I have met.

As far as Asset Forfeiture, it is awfully hard to make a set of rules that both allows the tool to be used in those positive ways described by the officers here and also prevents the abuses splashed around the media. That would seem like the ideal solution.