Hi all,

In the recent thread about Anthony Bourdain, the concept of respecting an individual's right to live life on their own terms was brought up and discussed briefly. In that thread's context, the concept was applied to an individual's decision to end his or her life. It made me wonder... how far, and to what extent, can or should this philosophy be applied? Which life choices that an individual may make can and should be respected, and which ones shouldn't? How does one decide which are "respectable"? Does it only apply to an individual's decision to end their life, or are there others? And if we choose to respect a specific life choice an individual makes, how should we respond to it? This philosophy can obviously be applied to so many choices an individual can make. Some may greatly impact an individual's family and friends, and some may not. How are we truly able to judge an individual who makes a choice that they see as the best path for their life without fully knowing or understanding the life they have lived?

Chris

If you are not free to end your own life, you are someone else's property.

That said, suicide for trivial reasons should be discouraged, and an effort made to convince the person that there are other choices.

But once the person takes their life, speak no ill of them.

Too often the decision appears to be not the result of informed, sound rationality, but some elements of irrationality, or misperception.

Most of the decisions one makes are mistakes in some respects. The fewer you make, the better off you are.

quote:

The fewer you make, the better off you are.

not to argue but discuss, the subject of this hanging clause could easily be confused whether 'decisions' or 'mistakes' is your reference.

For the moment I delay the alternate that you mean 'both'....

if that is so....<applause>

JALLEN, I continue to appreciate your style.

The more we turn against God, the more suicides I think we will see.
The bible talks about God not giving up on us, so we should not give up on ourselves.
But I understand that is not always the case in suicides.

or simmply make sure you hire experts to make most of the decisions for you, since you are not one

Yes. Sometimes the problem is that not making a decision is a decision...

quote:

Originally posted by Chris17404:
...Which life choices that an individual may make can and should be respected, and which ones shouldn't? How does one decide which are "respectable"?...And if we choose to respect a specific life choice an individual makes, how should we respond to it?

The real question you are asking is whether at some point we should exercise control over others. That's the stark reality of it, isn't it?

Sig2340 accurately summarized it, as did Para in another thread: If you are not free to end your own life, you are someone else's property.

quote:

Originally posted by signewt:

quote:

The fewer you make, the better off you are.

not to argue but discuss, the subject of this hanging clause could easily be confused whether 'decisions' or 'mistakes' is your reference.

For the moment I delay the alternate that you mean 'both'....

if that is so....<applause>

JALLEN, I continue to appreciate your style.

Maybe I’m mistaken but I think the only proper interpretation is “decisions.” The previous sentence provides the reference.

Otherwise it makes no sense. Nobody needs to be told they are better off making fewer mistakes, hopefully, and if one makes fewer decisions, one will inevitably make fewer mistakes. A win-win!

quote:

It made me wonder... how far, and to what extent, can or should this philosophy be applied? Which life choices that an individual may make can and should be respected, and which ones shouldn't?

The first question: how far and to what extent. IMO, it should be applied universally and irrevocably, with the proviso that said right to live on their own terms shall not infringe any others' rights to do the same.

The second question: respectability of decisions made under said rights. To the extent said decisions did not infringe on others, those should be respected, again universally and irrevocably.

One may or may not agree with the decisions, but the question was respect for the decisions, not whether you yourself would make the same decision in the same situation.

No one lives their life in a vacuum. People must have the right to make their own decisions for their lives, but the people around them should be part of the consideration.

I am a firm believer in quality of life and not quantity of life

I've seen several family members kept alive by what I would now call extraordinary means and I know damned well it was against their wishes but someone else was calling the shots

I think thats wrong

its your life, yours to end, when you want it to end

I think people need to come to grips that suicide is the decision of the person whose life is at stake, not the person left behind

for some, suicide means the problems and despair will never get any worse, those behind assume that it means that it can never get better

btw, I've had 5 friends commit suicide including a former girlfriend who stuffed herself into a steamer trunk that was air tight, several OD's on heroin

After some life experience (one in particular), I can see how a person could conclude suicide is the only answer. I didn't do it only because I knew how the aftermath would damage my family. Were it not for that, I could easily have tipped the chair. Now that the distress is long passed, I can see how suffering through it made me stronger and am glad I didn't short circuit the process. I am not so quick to condemn someone who does it after having been through it.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig2340:
If you are not free to end your own life, you are someone else's property.

That said, suicide for trivial reasons should be discouraged, and an effort made to convince the person that there are other choices.

But once the person takes their life, speak no ill of them.

You either have the right or you don't. Whether your reason is trivial or not, it shouldn't be either encouraged or discouraged. As for not speaking ill of them, it's also my right to speak well or ill of anyone whether alive or dead.

I also feel when you become a parent you have given up the right to be stupid, and the right to self terminate. I applaud those who know they don't want kids, it's not for everyone. When you have kids you take on responsibility outside yourself. Once they are adults, fine.

On the topic of "selfish" in the context of the discussion.

(rhetorically asking...)

Which is "more selfish"?

To choose to end one's life with awareness of effects it has on those affected.

or

The belief by "those affected", that what they may be left deal with are of greater that the choice one makes for himself?

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies so far. Lots of interesting perspectives. I certainly didn't mean to have this discussion centered around suicide, or the ending of one's life. In fact, the purpose was to go far beyond that. Like I said, this philosophy to respect an individual's right to live the life they choose can apply to so many more life decisions. Ones that can affect others around them.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris17404:
how far, and to what extent, can or should this philosophy be applied?

Universally

quote:

Which life choices that an individual may make can and should be respected, and which ones shouldn't?

They should all be respected unless they physically harm another. That is where competing rights comes in.

quote:

How are we truly able to judge an individual who makes a choice that they see as the best path for their life without fully knowing or understanding the life they have lived?

If you respect their decisions/choices, you wouldn't have a need to judge them

quote:

Originally posted by Chris17404:
Like I said, this philosophy to respect an individual's right to live the life they choose can apply to so many more life decisions.

For example?

We are all committing suicide. Some faster than others, in an infinite litany of methods.

Personally, I don't think I'll have the cajones to make a swift exit. I dread lingering around though, in a nursing home...

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by Chris17404:
Like I said, this philosophy to respect an individual's right to live the life they choose can apply to so many more life decisions.

For example?

A few: An young, in-experienced woman giving up her baby for adoption because she knows she can't live the life she wanted and she can't give the baby the life it deserves. A man deciding to end his marriage knowing its the right thing for him, yet affects his family. A person who knows they are homosexual but knows that living what is true to them will affect their friends and family. A man who leaves a high-paying job that makes him unhappy for a low-paying job that makes him happy, yet it affects his family's standard of living.

I don't think it's the specific life choice that matters, as much as how we apply this philosophy to it?