I shot a cold bore rifle match over the weekend.
50 yards on steel. 556 caliber. One guy shot 7.62 X 39.

The match director sent me a few photos of the damage to some of the plates later in the day.
Was this damage done by the Russian bullet or did one of the guys shoot steel core Ammo in his 556?

There were only 12 shooters and we are trying to find the responsible party. Ammo was not checked before the match.

Large and small holes. Looks like violatons in both calibers.

Always test the bullets with a magnet before allowing them downrange on steel. Hope you find the people responsible because cheap steel core ammo = costly replacements to steel targets.

Those big holes look like a 30.06
My dad made ma steel 6"X6" plates just to shoot with a Garand at 200 yards.
And those big holes looked just like that through the 1/4" steel.

50 yards seems awfully close for those calibers…

It was supposed to be 556 only.
The guy who shot the AK was told that he should be ok on the steels.
Wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
50 yards seems awfully close for those calibers…

50 yards isn't bad at all if the steel is the correct thickness and composition.

Speaking of which, how thick was that steel and what was it made of?

Based on both the holes and the craters, neither cartridge should have been shot at the plate. The craters are actually more dangerous to the shooter because of the possibility of their acting to direct the metal from a hit directly back the way it came. The steel was probably too soft for any rifle ammunition, and certainly not for shooting from 50 yards.

Unless the AK shooter was using some sort of steel core ammunition, the holes were much more likely to have been made by 5.56 bullets (and penetration holes in steel like that will almost always be larger than the diameter of the bullets that made them due to how the metal is displaced during the impact).

I have seen more than one steel target manufacturer caution that their plates were to be shot at less than 3000 fps muzzle velocity, and from at least 100 yards—and that’s decent quality material. That means that something like M193 is not approved even at 100 yards. A conventional bullet with gilding metal jacket and lead core fired from the 7.62×39mm Soviet cartridge is less damaging than the much higher velocity 5.56 loads. That’s why experimenters have found that M193 will penetrate level III steel armor when more powerful rounds such as 308 Winchester are stopped.

All bullets shooting steel should be non-magnetic, wether it’s steel core or copper washed steel bullet. Both will do harm to the plate.

Velocity also will damage plates. Ie 17 hornet, 22-250…I don’t know the limit but I ruined a plate with a 17hornet at 50 rds. Left little craters due to the speed.

I reloaded a 303 with some 7.62 bullets that were soft steel copper washed and I damaged the plate at my range-at 100 yds.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:
I reloaded a 303 with some 7.62 bullets that were soft steel copper washed and I damaged the plate at my range-at 100 yds.

That's good to know.

I was not sure about steel jacketed bullets. But it should be obvious that they would be more damaging than those with gilding metal jackets.

And thickness alone won’t guarantee that a steel plate is safe to shoot at. To reiterate, if the steel is soft enough to be cratered as pictured above, then it’s more dangerous to shoot at than if clean holes are punched through.

Steel! Seriously, I cannot answer that.

quote:

Originally posted by Oregon:
50 yards isn't bad at all if the steel is the correct thickness and composition.

Speaking of which, how thick was that steel and what was it made of?

Yeah, I wouldn’t shoot my steel targets (3/8” AR500) with a rifle at less than 100 yards. I made the mistake of XM193 at 50 on one target once and it left a nice dimple. Oops. Maybe should have listened to the manufacturer when they said no less than 100 yards. :-(

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
The craters are actually more dangerous to the shooter because of the possibility of their acting to direct the metal from a hit directly back the way it came.

I found this out the hard way back in the late 1980s. I shot a metal box that folks had been using for target practice with my 1911 from 25 yards away. The round hit a previously shot crater causing the copper jacket to come back and hit me in the stomach. I had a blood blister the size of a quarter for weeks.

Yep too close. Looks like far more rounds damaged then steel than didn't. That should tell you something.

Search the Internet for “steel targets safety” and numerous results will come up that discuss factors relating to safe distances, acceptable cartridges, types of steel, etc. One is here:

https://www.actiontarget.com/h...shoot-steel-targets/

The target was likely made of lower-grade steel. Not AR500. At best, maybe AR400.

No steel survives very long at 50 yards against ammo with muzzle velocities above 2500 fps. Ammo with an MV above 3000 fps will dimple good steel at even 200 yards.

Bullets with steel components can slice right through many steel targets, even at extended distances. Copper solids can dimple steel quite noticeably. Sharply pointed lead bullets are harder on steel than rounded tip bullets. In my experience, a plastic-tipped lead bullet has a lower chance of damaging steel than a lead bullet without a plastic tip.

IMO only the shooter(s) with steel tipped or cored bullets deserve some heat -- if this occurred.
Assuming the majority (if not all) of the shooters used lead bullets, the match director made poor choices.

I would blame M193 out of a 20” upper long before anything shooting consumer 7.62x39.

With only 11 other people, maybe the match director could ask them? How’s a match like that work? Nobody noticed holes getting punched through the plates?

Nobody noticed. I think only 1 guy was shooting magnified optics. The rest were shooting red dots.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
With only 11 other people, maybe the match director could ask them? How’s a match like that work? Nobody noticed holes getting punched through the plates?

I used to have a basement range with a 5/16 diamond tread plate at about 30* going down into a sand box. Shot thousands of rounds of 22-45 into it, no problem. Shot a mag of .30 carbine surplus and found a bunch of holes in the block wall behind it. Ouch! Stuff went thru like AP, which it was not.