quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
I find that sort of moderation lifestyle much easier to stick with than the idea of staring longingly at the lasagna and cupcakes that you are completely denied and relegating yourself to choking down brussel sprouts and cottage cheese 3 meals per day while bitching the whole time about how much you hate your restrictive diet and dreaming about having some pasta or something sweet.

To me, that's not a recipe for long term success, or happiness.

Which is one reason why so many people try, and fail, to get their weight under control.

You have to adopt a permanent, tolerable lifestyle change that results in remaining on an even keel.

The process I employed that week was first suggested to me by an ex-GF, years ago. I'd been on a weight loss kick. One night, when we were out to dinner, she said to me (paraphrased) "Dieting doesn't mean you have to deprive yourself of everything you like all the time. Think of it like a savings account: If you overdraw one day, pay it back over the next few days. If you know you're going to withdraw too much because of an upcoming social event, bank some in advance."

My goal is a 500 Calorie/day deficit. But I don't make that a hard daily number. I seek to make that kind of an average over the week.

Theoretically, that should result in about one pound of fat loss/week.

I started our with 1800 cals a day.
Went to 1700 a day.

The doctor told me to wait till April before dropping to 1600 per day.

But that will change if I start to exercise.

quote:

Originally posted by bendable:
But that will change if I start to exercise.

Are you doing any exercise at all, even just walking?

While the saying is true that you "can't exercise away a bad diet" and therefore diet is the more important component in the equation, physical activity can have often dramatic effects to assist with weight loss when paired with stuff like your current calorie restrictions and watching what you eat.

Especially if the person has been almost completely sedentary, like sitting at a desk all day and then sitting on the couch all evening, with breaks of sitting in a car in-between. Going from that to just exercising a little can make a noticeable difference. Something basic like adding in walking for 20-30 minutes 3x per week is a simple and easy place to start for most people, depending on their physical/medical condition.

quote:

Originally posted by bendable:
But that will change if I start to exercise.

I'm not certain what you mean by that, but, exercise will increase your "calories out."

E.g.: When I'm exercising (see below) my Apple Health estimates I'm burning about 2400-2500 kcals/day. 400-500 of that is burned in exercise. So, when I'm not exercising: If I wish to continue burning fat I have to reduce my "calories in."

I did that, last week and this, by 16:8 interval fasting each day, entirely eliminating all snacking, and by cutting-back my meal sizes a bit.

The goal, again, is to create a daily calorie deficit.

Another thing about working out: You don't want too great a deficit, because your muscles need energy and nutrition to rebuild. They can gain only so much of that from fat burn.

Trying to work out to gain muscle mass and doing calorie deficit to lose fat at the same time is called "body recomposition." (Or "body recomp.") You won't gain muscle or lose fat as fast as you would employing the more common bulk/cut cycles, but, it's doable.

Thing is: Body recomp requires a very measured daily calorie deficit. All it takes is getting it just a bit wrong, one way or the other, and you either won't build muscle or won't lose fat--at least not very quickly or possibly not at all, depending on how bad the imbalance.

Last point: Strength training is better for fat loss than cardio. Strength training also increases lean body mass and bone density. Cardio does neither of those very effectively.

I'm not working out, right now, because I had An Unforeseen Thing happen when I was doing deadlifts, week-before-last, and pulled a back muscle. I compounded the issue by trying to do another strength workout, and snow-shoveling, anyway. This resulted in other muscles trying to compensate for the weakened one, straining them.

Oops.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Something basic like adding in walking for 20-30 minutes 3x per week is a simple and easy place to start for most people, depending on their physical/medical condition.

Don't get me wrong: Walking is good. But, it's not a particularly time-efficient calorie burner. I can burn more calories in a 30-minute strength or HIIT cardio session than I will in two hours of walking.

Absolutely true. But look at the context of the rest of the paragraph that contained that single sentence you quoted.

Getting a totally sedentary person to start exercising by walking for 20 minutes at a time is WAY more likely than getting a totally sedentary person to dive straight into doing HIIT sessions.

And depending on just how overweight and sedentary the person is, their body may not even be able to physically handle a HIIT session.

So starting that person off small by beginning to walk a few times per week presents a way to ease both the body and the mind into exercising on a regular basis, while starting from Square 1 to begin building up stuff like stabilizer muscles, joint flexibility, basic cardio endurance, etc.

Any exercise beats no exercise. And just like the diet plan, an exercise plan that they're willing to start and are apt to stick with beats one that they start and then quickly give up on, or never start at all.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Absolutely true. But look at the context of the rest of the paragraph that contained that single sentence you quoted.

Well, that's why I prefixed my comment with "Don't get me wrong...", but, perhaps I could've stated it better.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Getting a totally sedentary person to start exercising by walking for 20 minutes at a time is WAY more likely than getting a totally sedentary person to dive straight into doing HIIT sessions.

Indeed. In fact a sedentary person should absolutely not dive straight into HIIT. Not unless they want to become permanently, ultimately sedentary

My only point, and I guess I didn't make it well, was that, while walking is good, it ain't all that great a calorie-burner, comparatively speaking.

I’ve lost about 13 lbs over the past 4 weeks, quite a ways to go still but it’s a start. I’ve been loosely doing keto. My weakness is my sweet tooth. I could crush an apple pie right now at 5am.

I miss bread sometimes and sandwiches. But as was stated already it’s a lifestyle change. A lifestyle I have lived since I was 17 for the most part with a break in my 20’s that I let go on too long.

Sugar might as well be crack cocaine. Are you going to start smoking rocks? Then get off the sugar. Treat yourself once in a while though. I’ll go 6 months and just all of a sudden want some ice cream or a piece of cake or something. But being healthy is a way of life and you get used to not eating shit. I mean are you on drugs? Meth, heroin? No, well food is the same thing. And the reality is food has been marketed to you perhaps more than anything else in life. Sugar laden cereal when you were a small kid. Then later Happy Meals and combo meals. Adult, restaurants. The food industry does a real good job at marketing. Turn on any pro sport. You’ll be bombarded with food ads for fast food, pizza, wings, delivery this and that, combo meals. You just have to see through the programming.

If you are a weight loss journey, it’s like anything, you get stronger over time. No food tastes as good as being in shape feels. You feel better, you feel healthy. You’re mobile, agile, and able to do physical activity. Does that food you miss mean more, or does staying out of doctor offices and being on prescriptions, and being invalid? We were all taught in public school what to eat. Eat correctly every meal. Once a week, get a cheat meal, and get a dessert. If you are doing what you are supposed to 90% of the time, it’s just fine to have a single fat meal with the bad stuff you like. Moderation.

My wife and i are doing Low Carb. and it works for us but we both are missing pasta and breads.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by bendable:
But that will change if I start to exercise.

Are you doing any exercise at all, even just walking?

Maybe 1.5 miles per week is all.
I climb two flights of stairs 8 or nine times a week.

I have one knee that is at about 45% .

My Doctor said not to "fix" anything if it's not broken

Talking about my calories in take

I'm good at a lot of things but I'm really good at two things in particular, gaining weight and losing weight. Maintaining has taking me a while to get the hang of but I have it now.
You can't out exercise a bad diet no matter how hard you try, calories just don't burn as fast or as easily as they consume. That couple slices of pizza that took 5 minutes to eat is a couple hours on the treadmill at moderate intensity. Most people don't have that kind of time or drive and unless you're in good shape, can't maintain moderate intensity for a couple hours straight.
Most folks could easily whack a thousand calories a day out of their normal diet and probably still have room to spare. We're brought up with the idea that you're not finished eating unless you're full. In reality, if you're full you probably overate. Probably. I lost over a hundred pounds a handful of years ago and waffled up and down about 30 pounds for a couple years. These days I eat very clean and reduced calorie during the workweek and bank calories for the weekend. If I stay 500 a day Monday through Friday I can binge a little on the weekends and not gain weight. I factor my exercise into my calorie needs but it's not usually that significant unless it's a good long bike ride in the summer.
God bless everyone trying, everyone can do it if they want it enough.
Nothing tastes as good as looking good feels and moving easier is a wonderful thing.

I dropped 90lbs over about a year doing my own version of Keto after beginning to pile up several medical issues and haven't looked back. I can honestly say I had a sugar addiction. Mountain Dew was like crack cocaine and I never realized how many carbs I ate until my health issues. When I had finally had enough and my doctors were about worthless in the assistance for weight loss I took matters into my own hands. Started watching Dr. Berg's videos on YouTube about Keto and other stuff. I don't fully subscribe to all his nonsense, but there were some golden nuggets that dramatically helped me.

When I started I felt like I was coming off an addiction at about day 4 and it got worse until about the end of week 2. After that, it got much easier and I started dropping weight very fast like 60lbs over 3-4 months.

What do I miss? Not much. I found supplements for some of the "bad" foods I like such as icecream. There are Keto versions out there, just have to find the good ones. Bread, I initially missed it, but when I eat it now it almost makes me sick. First time I ate a real brownie after dropping a bunch of weight, my insides just about turned inside out. Processed food is loaded with corn syrup, sugar, salt, etc. just stay away from it. Most of what I eat now is meat, veggies, eggs, dairy and I use sugar-alcohols for sweetners when I need to instead of sugar for cooking. Tastes the same if done right.

When I say that I miss particular foods,
It's not that I sit around and brood about yearning for stuff.

The pangs hit when some place or thing triggers it.


I guess when 25 years of poor eating choices take root.

Those attachments are going stick around a while

One thing I struggle with is the whole "one gram of protein for every pound of body weight" thing.

Criminy sakes I'd burst if I ate 180 grams of protein in a day. Not kidding, I don't know how anyone at whatever weight does that, especially day after day.

To add perspective, I'm average height and still in size 32 jeans, doing over 100 pull-ups per week among other exercises. Yet if I put in 30ish grams at every meal I'm stuffed and miserable by bed time.

quote:

Originally posted by apprentice:
One thing I struggle with is the whole "one gram of protein for every pound of body weight" thing.

Criminy sakes I'd burst if I ate 180 grams of protein in a day. Not kidding, I don't know how anyone at whatever weight does that, especially day after day.

No doubt a gm per bw is not easy but is only necessary for for muscle building.
You can easily get by with less if not trying to gain muscle.
Whey is what I use to help with a deficit and doesn't make you feel too full.

quote:

Originally posted by apprentice:
One thing I struggle with is the whole "one gram of protein for every pound of body weight" thing.

Criminy sakes I'd burst if I ate 180 grams of protein in a day. Not kidding, I don't know how anyone at whatever weight does that, especially day after day.

To add perspective, I'm average height and still in size 32 jeans, doing over 100 pull-ups per week among other exercises. Yet if I put in 30ish grams at every meal I'm stuffed and miserable by bed time.

You can't do more than 30g of protein at a time? Because 30 grams of protein is roughly half of a chicken breast, or 2/3 of a can of tuna, or a small piece of steak equal to half of a filet mignon or a quarter of a ribeye.


Between eating protein at meals, eating high protein snacks between meals (like yogurt, cheese, or nuts), and possibly drinking protein shakes to supplement as needed, eating your bodyweight in protein grams is very doable. For example:

Breakfast - 2x eggs and 3x bacon slices: 12g + 9g
Post-workout protein shake made with a scoop of whey powder and 6 oz of milk: 31g
Lunch - 6 oz of chicken breast and 6 oz of yogurt: 54g + 17g
Afternoon snack - Couple handfuls of almonds: 20g
Dinner - 8 oz of steak: 56g

That alone is 199 grams of protein throughout an entire day without having to gorge yourself, and still leaving plenty of room for fruits/veggies/carbs at meals as well. All without even seriously trying to cram extra protein in.

As the saying goes, "when you look in the fridge and the butter looks good". I probably wouldn't turn down free cake but it does increase my cravings later. Prioritizing hunger over satisfying a a craving removes the missing feeling-mostly. I will gird my loins when walking past the girl scout displays this year, well, maybe some shortbreads .

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
That alone is 199 grams of protein throughout an entire day without having to gorge yourself, while still leaving plenty of room for fruits/veggies/carbs at meals as well. All without even seriously trying to cram extra protein in.

While I get your math, my experience is that somewhere in there I'll pass on at least one of those line items because I'm just not empty enough to consider eating it. *Shrug*

Maybe my metabolism is just slowing down more than I'm willing to admit?

Though now that I'm thinking it over, since I quit smoking five years ago that added to my middle, and would account for a certain decrease in metabolism IIRC.

A typical serving of meat for me is 6 ounces raw(approx 4.75 oz cooked). 1 ounce is 7 grams of protein, so your looking at 42 grams and between 360 to 420 calories, depending on type of meat.

I like to shoot for 500 calories per meal, for easy math. What really helps me is keeping a notebook on the table that I track everything, and I weigh myself every morning. Once you realize you typically eat the same 5,6 or so things, it’s easy to just plug and play your meals once you figure out the calories in everything you normally eat.

However long you think it will take you to get to your goal, it’s probably going to take you 2-3 times longer. If the weight loss stalls , I will reduce calories by 20% and monitor the scale. A good starting spot to lose body fat is your bodyweight x 12( or 10)=daily calories. To maintain your bodyweight is bw x 15= calories and to gain bw x 17= calories.

I’ve been interested in this stuff all of my adult life and have been messing around with it for 20 years. This method is what works best for me.

quote:

Originally posted by apprentice:
One thing I struggle with is the whole "one gram of protein for every pound of body weight" thing.

Criminy sakes I'd burst if I ate 180 grams of protein in a day. Not kidding, I don't know how anyone at whatever weight does that, especially day after day.

To add perspective, I'm average height and still in size 32 jeans, doing over 100 pull-ups per week among other exercises. Yet if I put in 30ish grams at every meal I'm stuffed and miserable by bed time.

A good way to look at it would be 1 gram per lb of lean body weight. So if you weighed 180 and were around 20% body fat, then your lean weight would be 140 to 150 lbs, so that would be a better number to shoot for. Some day will be more, some days less, just shoot for averages.