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I have a Toro Recycler 20383 mower. I recently ordered some parts online from themowershop.com I bought a belt, blade, spark plug, handle tension spring, and a self pace tension cable. Spring, cable replacement (which fixed the sticking handle) went fine, then I pulled the spark plug. The stock plug is a Torch F7RTC (19mm threadreach), the plug they sent me is an NKG BPR6HS (12.7mm threadreach). The NKG threads are physically 6.3mm shorter than the stock Torch. I emailed them and they said it was ok to run the shorter plug. On the cross referencing website is reads the NKG equivalent for the Torch F7RTC in an NGK BPR7ES, that has the same 19mm threadreach as the stock plug. Since I trust you guys more than a sales guy, I want your input before I install the shorter plug. Also anyone have any videos or step by step instruction to replacing the belt. This mower has a blade brake and I can't find any youtubes on it. Plenty of Toro belt replacement videos, just none with the blade brake. I took off the blade (replaced it) and the bottom cover, man was it full of grass. I looked at the blade brake assembly but didn't want to remove it and not be able to put it back together. Not many things are more embarrassing that to have a repairman fix something a customer took apart and couldn't fix. Thanks for any input...1LL | ||
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Is it clean enough to take pics before disassembly? | |||
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| Learn it, know it, live it |
It is now that I cleaned everything out. I should've taken some pics when I had the bottom cover off, but at the time I just resigned that I would take it to a shop. Asking y'all about it was an afterthought. I had put it back together and then went on to the spark plug, I have a week of vacation coming up in a couple weeks, I can pull the blade and cover off, and take a few pics. I'd much rather do it myself than take it in somewhere. The old belt works, but it shows signs of wear. Since I bought another I might as well replace it. | |||
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If the old belt isn’t really thrashed, save it, might come in handy or order another new one for emergencies. Happy mowing! | |||
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Yes, you “can” use the shorter plug but a couple of things. You are pulling the spark plug back 6.3mm into the cylinder head. Problems I see with that. One of the finctions of the threaded portion of the spark plug is to transfer heat to the head allowing it to dissapate more efficiently. So heat transfer, more localized high temperature on less threads with aluminum cylinder head and steel spark plug body might make it harder to remove at some point? Second, NGK plugs are opposite from other brands. Most, the higher the number, the hotter the plug, lower number on NGK is hotter? So why are they using a hotter plug that originally intended? Could have something to do with pulling the plug back further in the head “slightly” lowering compression to increase temperature in the cylinder and reduce possible fouling due to the plug being pulled back. You are shrouding your plug, not the way it was designed, restricting flame travel reduces efficiency also. Also, you will most likely get carbon buildup and other deposits in the 6.3mm space between the shorter plug and the end of the threads at the top of the chamber. Not a problem until of if you get the correct longer plug and attempt to thread it in. If lucky it goes in ok. If unlucky, it binds up and you booger the threads up unless you chase them. Bottom line, does the parts supplier reall know more than the engineers that originally designed the engine or the NGK Engineers that designed the spark plug? That is up to you. I’d get what the cross reference says to use myself. -------------------------------------—————— ————————--Ignorance is a powerful tool if applied at the right time, even, usually, surpassing knowledge(E.J.Potter, A.K.A. The Michigan Madman) | |||
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Thank you. This why I ask Sigforum. This is the email response I received this morning; Thanks for checking on this issue. The Torch plug is installed from the factory into Toro engines but we believe the NGK plug performs better and longer than other options. The primary reason we use BPR6HS is to combat against ethanol blended fuels. There are multiple options from Toro (Champion RL87YC / NGK BPR6HS or 7HS / NHPS E7RTC (OEM China)) but the hotter plug helps to clean the engine. 1. I use ethanol free fuel in my mower and weedeater. 2. Every plug referenced in the email is the shorter plug. Amazon has the ordinal Torch plug or I'll buy one of the appropriate thread length cross referenced plugs locally. I've owned this mower for several years and hope to keep it going several more. Annual oil changes, blade sharpening or replacement, and a new set of wheels are the only things I've done to it. Thank you for the help. | |||
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| Page late and a dollar short |
If your plug is burning a light tan color on the center electrode at least IMO there is no need to go to a hotter plug especially with a air cooled engine. Fluffy blac indicates a too rich mixture, that MIGHT be the only reason that I would use a hotter plug but would probably stay with the factory recommended unless there was a fouling or starting problem. Better to run a bit on the rich side vs. on the lean side. Lean gets you holes in pistons. Any of the three spark plugs brands you named would be fine, I just do,t agree with their fittment. I just don't understand their reasoning, I don't agree with that.This message has been edited. Last edited by: shovelhead, -------------------------------------—————— ————————--Ignorance is a powerful tool if applied at the right time, even, usually, surpassing knowledge(E.J.Potter, A.K.A. The Michigan Madman) | |||
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| Page late and a dollar short |
The only problems with Ethanol fuel blends AFAIK is that it destroys rubber and the cast metal used in fuel systems. It has a propensity to mix with water and water corrodes metals. And Ethanol contains more oxygen so it can tend to burn hotter. Years ago the BSA motorcycle shop manual (1967) had a section on carburetors. In that it said when racing and running pure alcohol fuels you needed to change the main jet and increase the size 220% over what you used if running gasoline. I know I’ve had to tweak jetting on motorcycle carburetors over stock settings sometimes even on today’s gasoline’s due to lean out conditions. -------------------------------------—————— ————————--Ignorance is a powerful tool if applied at the right time, even, usually, surpassing knowledge(E.J.Potter, A.K.A. The Michigan Madman) | |||
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| That rug really tied the room together.  |
I'd run the NGK plug that the cross reference site says to run, with the same exact dimensions. And I hate to say it, but the belt "MIGHT" be more than your pay grade (I don't know your abilities). Those blade brake systems are a BITCH to work on. I owned a mower shop back in the day and I GROANED anytime I had to work on the Toro blade brake. It was pretty complex. The good news is, the belts hardly ever wore out. I've seen them 15, 20 years old and in perfect working order. So my honest advice, change everything else, except the belt, AND make sure to adjust the drive properly, and see how it runs. You just might find that the belt that's on there works fine. And if the engine is running fine, I would use the Chinese Torch plug that came with it. They seem to work fine for a while, and no need to change something that's working fine. You can keep the spare on the shelf until its hard to start. Check the engine manual. Sometimes they tell you what the Champion or NGK equivalent is, right there in the manual. ______________________________________________________ Often times a very small man can cast a very large shadow | |||
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Thank you. When I saw the tension from the spring on the blade brake, that is when I stopped going any further. The mower runs fine with the existing plug and belt. If it ain't broke, don't fix it...  | |||
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The NGK BP7ES was a very common plug in Japanese cars; I put thousands of that number into Mazdas back when. Any autoparts store should have them. I would NOT run a shorter reach plug. Don't listen to the parts store/ gun store idiots. | |||
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I too would go with the cross referenced plug. If you really have doubt maybe call a local Toro dealer and ask them? | |||
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