quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by Loswsmith:
Thailand has an aircraft carrier? WTAF?!

Yes, they do technically have one. But it hasn't had any planes for over a decade, after they retired the last of their Harriers in 2006. And it rarely ever leaves port, only seeing very occasional use during humanitarian/disaster response operations.

So basically a nicer, better maintained version of the Russian carrier doing good instead of evil? The things you learn on this website continue to amaze me.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
One other Carrier Aviation 'tidbit' for everyone interest to chew on.

Every, and I mean EVERY US Carrier pilot is Night Carrier Landing Qualified coming out of training. And when they finally show up to a deploying fleet squadron, they spend a TON of time practicing and getting better at operating around the carrier at night. They all maintain night carrier landing currency while deployed, or in the rare case the go a day or 2 too long, they regain currency at the first opportunity.

Few countries have aircraft carriers. The countries that do, they're mainly pride and prestige pieces, only the US and France actually takes their carriers out on deployment. Then there's night ops...the US does them, France sort of, everyone else, not really. Naval Aviation, unmatched, bar none.

RHINOSWO, you and Jello may have been in at the same time...?
The Fighter Pilot Podcast: Night Carrier Landings

Then comes the numbers game.

CVNs (Nimitz / Ford Class) = 11 Total big deck carriers with more planes that most nations.

LHA (Wasp / America Class) - 10 Total going to 11 as the Americas replace the Wasp. After the addition of the F-35B in place of the AV-8Bs, any USN LHA is on par with every other nations 'aircraft carriers', except the 1 that France (CDG Class) and the 1 that the UK (Queen Elizabeth Class) operate. And that's really only because the LHAs are amphibious assault shipt and only carry 6 x F-35s and 12 MV-22s, 4xAH-1 / 4 x UH-1. If we wanted to ditch the MV-22s and AH-1s, they could easily take 18-20 F-35s and put them on par with the French & UK carriers.

When it comes to Naval Aviation, every other nation besides France / UK is a complete joke.

Hey, tweet bigly and project a big deck fleet.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
The firing spreading to 600 meters, the ship is done. It will never sail again.

Really?

If you only had one of these things wouldn’t you want to repair it and get it back out at sea?

Just because a ship has had a fire, doesn’t mean it will never sail again. The claim of 600 meters being burnt is not the end of a ships life...it’s about 6500 sq feet......and I’m sure that a aircraft carrier is bigger than the square footage of three or even four homes....

I'm gonna hedge my bet on how badly the boat is damaged based on Chernobyl, the Kirsk, KAL 007, and the Nyonoksa explosion a few months ago.

Most likely, it will be reported in the future, that the Kuznetsov has been refitted as a submarine, and is on secret patrol...

quote:

Originally posted by Chris42:
Haven’t seen any soviet carriers, but was on a soviet diesel sub in Hamburg last year.

Technology was basic. Sub was launched in 1977, when I was an ASW Gunners Mate in USN. It was interesting walking through the sub, knowing at the time I was on the surface hunting for it.

Putting myself in the shoes of a soviet sailor at the time and thinking about reliability and having faith in my ship, I would not have been comfortable sailing in that sub. Personally I was concerned about it sinking while tied to the pier. At sea and at depth? Not this sailor. Passageways were built like a maze for a mouse. Had the lights gone out or the boat filled with smoke? Never, never get out.

I've been on that Tango, and also the Juliett SSG up in Peenemünde on the Baltic Sea. Despite its 3,000-plus tons, the latter is just as cramped internally, no better than the much smaller German WW II boats and post-war coastal subs. By contrast, I've been on USS Growler at the Intrepid Museum in New York, which is the exact analogue of the Juliett in mission, size and period, and found it the most spacious and comfortable submarine I've ever been on (I still mean to visit SSBN Le Redoutable in Cherbourg). It's pretty clear to me that the US designed boats with the crew in mind, while the Soviets stereotypically put weapons first, with humans as an afterthought. Even WW II Tench-class USS Torsk I saw in Baltimore was way more comfortable than the bigger Soviet post-war subs.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
The firing spreading to 600 meters, the ship is done. It will never sail again.

Really?

If you only had one of these things wouldn’t you want to repair it and get it back out at sea?

Oh she might get repaired but historically the repair of Russian units is very slow and sometimes not at all. For example in 95 the carrier Novorossiysk had an engine room fire and by 96 she was sitting in PoHang KS getting scrapped. My ship pulled in there in 96 and me and a bud walked over to where she was tied up and managed to get a few momentos.

About 35 years ago, the Navy had a couple subs on public display at the sea wall in PDX. One was immediate post WW2 design headed for retirement, and the other was a late 1950s era. Don't know the names/classification of them, but was quite amazed at different internal space use.

They were tied up next to each other, and seemed externally virtually the same dimensions.

Inside, what I noted was being barely able to walk down the main central deck without my shoulders almost touching the walls. Captain's 'ready room' whatever they called it, was barely larger than a shower stall. The biggest space open for public display, was the forward torpedo room, where I could almost stretch out my arms in a couple positions, without running into something.

The newer one I could pass someone in the center walk way by just turning my shoulders a bit. The bunks in the newer one, while still cramped, had enough room to at least take a deep breath.

I couldn't have volunteered to enter the service to be in either one. I've known a few submariners in the 80s and 90s era boats who speak of entirely different spaces for extended submerged patrol in which they were very comfortable.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Oh yea, Beat Army!

I'm sorry that's incorrect.

The correct line is :

GO ARMY - BEAT Navy !

-----------------------------------

quote:

Originally posted by signewt:
About 35 years ago, the Navy had a couple subs on public display at the sea wall in PDX.

Yeah, hellz to the no on Navy Subs, or Subs of any variety.

I toured one tied up as well and that was enough for me. I didn't even like being below the waterline on the CVN when we got a tour of all the low spaces once.

To me subs are like helicopters - the only thing to get me on one is being chased by the enemy and it being the only recourse to save my life. Otherwise, forget it!

GO NAVY, BEAT THE ARMY MULE!!!

I God had wanted man zipping around underwater inside a big long object, he would have made us krill...

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by signewt:
About 35 years ago, the Navy had a couple subs on public display at the sea wall in PDX.

Yeah, hellz to the no on Navy Subs, or Subs of any variety.

I toured one tied up as well and that was enough for me. I didn't even like being below the waterline on the CVN when we got a tour of all the low spaces once.

To me subs are like helicopters - the only thing to get me on one is being chased by the enemy and it being the only recourse to save my life. Otherwise, forget it!

GO NAVY, BEAT THE ARMY MULE!!!

I am with you on this. I do not like being below the water line. Oxygen is my friend. Perhaps, my best friend, and I like to stay as close as possible to the good stuff.

re the subs,

walked thru the one at Patriot's Point in Mt Pleasant SC, (just across from Charleston)

I was amazed at how tight it was inside,

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Then comes the numbers game.

CVNs (Nimitz / Ford Class) = 11 Total big deck carriers with more planes that most nations.

LHA (Wasp / America Class) - 10 Total going to 11 as the Americas replace the Wasp. After the addition of the F-35B in place of the AV-8Bs, any USN LHA is on par with every other nations 'aircraft carriers', except the 1 that France (CDG Class) and the 1 that the UK (Queen Elizabeth Class) operate. And that's really only because the LHAs are amphibious assault shipt and only carry 6 x F-35s and 12 MV-22s, 4xAH-1 / 4 x UH-1. If we wanted to ditch the MV-22s and AH-1s, they could easily take 18-20 F-35s and put them on par with the French & UK carriers.

When it comes to Naval Aviation, every other nation besides France / UK is a complete joke.

Thank you for that information. I had an opportunity to go to the Norfolk Navy base and saw 2 carriers docked there. Those dam things are huge!

On another note I’m not really concerned about the Russians as they are almost a third world country (albeit with nukes) but I was wondering about the Chinese. How many carriers do they have and how many are they building?

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
I was wondering about the Chinese. How many carriers do they have and how many are they building?

They have the one they bought from Russia and took a long time to get up and running (term used loosely) but it's basically the same - special fighters using a "ski jump" launch system, which is very limiting in terms of weapons loads.

The Chinese say they are making 2-3 more carriers of their own design, but I wouldn't hold my breath. And as they aren't overly interested at projecting power outside the Western Pacific, they really don't need big deck carriers with all the short bases and the 'islands' they are making in the South China Sea.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
The firing spreading to 600 meters, the ship is done. It will never sail again.

Really?

If you only had one of these things wouldn’t you want to repair it and get it back out at sea?

Just because a ship has had a fire, doesn’t mean it will never sail again. The claim of 600 meters being burnt is not the end of a ships life...it’s about 6500 sq feet......and I’m sure that a aircraft carrier is bigger than the square footage of three or even four homes....

Yes, really. You're talking about approximately 6,548 square feet of ship heavily damaged. It IS much cheaper to build a new one than try to fix that amount damage on this one. Heat weakens a lot of the metal, then you have wiring, plumbing, accessing it all, and on and on. Not to mention this one is a total POS, and was ever since it was built. It's so unreliable, and breaks down so much, that it has it's own tug boat that follows/escorts it, everywhere it sails.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
I God had wanted man zipping around underwater inside a big long object, he would have made us krill...

Well, we did all start out as seamen

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
The firing spreading to 600 meters, the ship is done. It will never sail again.

Really?

If you only had one of these things wouldn’t you want to repair it and get it back out at sea?

Just because a ship has had a fire, doesn’t mean it will never sail again. The claim of 600 meters being burnt is not the end of a ships life...it’s about 6500 sq feet......and I’m sure that a aircraft carrier is bigger than the square footage of three or even four homes....

Yes, really. You're talking about approximately 6,548 square feet of ship heavily damaged. It IS much cheaper to build a new one than try to fix that amount damage on this one. Heat weakens a lot of the metal, then you have wiring, plumbing, accessing it all, and on and on. Not to mention this one is a total POS, and was ever since it was built. It's so unreliable, and breaks down so much, that it has it's own tug boat that follows/escorts it, everywhere it sails.

This is Russia we're talking about.
Russia.

They will figure out a way to tie a mule to that hunk of steel and make it go.
Ivan is trying to make a big assed rubber band to attach to the prop to make it go.
Boris and Natasha will get Moose and Squirrel to get that hunk-o-junk to go.