From the Russian perspective. Interesting in that light.

There wasn’t much left of Russian army Sgt. Andrei Akhromov’s body when it arrived in a zinc coffin at his hometown, a four-hour drive south of Moscow, relatives said. The 21-year-old died in April near the Ukrainian city of Chernihiv when his tank was hit by enemy fire.

Sgt. Akhromov’s cousin, Sergei Akhromov, said a representative of the regional governor’s office told the family it took the armed forces three weeks to identify what remained of him using DNA analysis. Loved ones didn’t look into the casket before burying him last week, he said.

“I only blame America—not Ukraine, not Russia,” Mr. Akhromov, a 32-year-old parks-and-recreation worker, said. “Biden, or however he is called, allowed for Nazism to flourish in Ukraine, and so Russia had to fight not only to protect its people and borders, but also the Ukrainian people, women, children, elderly.”

More than two months after Russian President Vladimir Putin sent troops into Ukraine, Russians are beginning to confront the toll of the war. Mr. Putin has justified his actions by saying Ukraine, which has a Jewish president, is run by Nazis—a claim for which he hasn’t provided evidence.

Russia’s Defense Ministry said in late March that 1,351 Russian soldiers had died in what it calls a “special military operation.” It hasn’t released any casualty numbers since. Western governments estimate that as many as 15,000 Russians have died—more than the total lost over the course of the Soviet Union’s decadelong war in Afghanistan.

The Kremlin has portrayed the war as a battle to defend Russia against an aggressive West and as a continuation of Russia’s World War II fight against fascism. It is a narrative repeated by state media and one that fits with a worldview—encouraged by the government for years—that a hostile West is trying to keep Russia down.

Russia is persevering in its war in Ukraine despite setbacks, sanctions and condemnation from many countries. WSJ’s Ann Simmons explains why deep cultural and political ties, its strategic location and potential resources have made the former Soviet Republic a target for Moscow. Photo composite: Eve Hartley
Russia’s initial offensive thrusts into the north of Ukraine failed, thwarted by a fierce resistance. Moscow says forces have refocused their efforts on the east and the south. The war has settled into a grinding conflict, with Ukraine getting weapons supplies from the U.S. and some of its North Atlantic Treaty Organization allies.

Since the invasion, Russia has bombed residential areas in cities across Ukraine, killing more than 3,000 civilians, the United Nations said Monday. Ukraine says about 3,000 of its soldiers have died. One of Russia’s more punishing sieges has been of the key southern port city of Mariupol, which has been leveled, as desperate residents have struggled to escape. More than 5.5 million Ukrainians have fled the country, according to the U.N.

Mr. Akhromov remembers his cousin as gregarious and kind and said he joined the army out of a belief that he had a duty to serve his country. Mr. Akhromov said Russia should use more powerful weapons. “I would use something stronger—other than nuclear, of course,” Mr. Akhromov said. “So many guys are dying for no reason.”

Alexei Kozubenko’s 21-year-old son, Dmitry, an army private, was killed in action in March. Mr. Kozubenko declined to share details about where his son fought or how he died. An obituary in a local news outlet said he served in the 37th Separate Guards Motor Rifle Brigade, which Ukraine says was deployed in the suburbs around Kyiv before retreating last month.


Russian soldier Dmitry Kozubenko, 21, died on March 26 in the war in Ukraine.


Mr. Kozubenko, 51, served as a military officer, and Dmitry’s grandfather served too—though neither ever fought in battle. “There is a profession called defending your motherland,” said Mr. Kozubenko. “And if he didn’t die under a fence in a drunken or drug-addled stupor, or in a gang feud, but like a real man with a weapon in his hands, then that means it was an honorable death.”

Mr. Kozubenko said he supports the offensive. “But I’m opposed to it being so humane,” he said. “As soon as there is a single shot from a residential area, it should be leveled to the ground. If you treat people like animals, you should be treated the same.”

A survey published by the independent Levada Center pollster in late April found that 57% of Russians blame the U.S. or NATO for the deaths and devastation in Ukraine, while only 7% blamed Russia. The survey also found that 74% of Russians supported the offensive—a slight drop from the previous month.

Some experts suggest treating such wartime polling with caution given a government crackdown on dissent that has seen Russians lose their jobs and receive steep fines for speaking out against war. Russian law imposes prison sentences of up to 15 years for what the Kremlin considers to be fake news about its invasion.

Denis Volkov, Levada’s director, said he felt there were deep roots to the pro-war views he was hearing and that he found Russians are increasingly trusting state-controlled television during wartime. He also said the antiwar Russians Levada surveyed spoke at length about their position.


A destroyed Russian tank in a village recaptured by the Ukrainian army near Kharkiv, northeast Ukraine.


“There is a foundational understanding that the West is against us, that we wanted to be friends with them but they spat in our soul in the 1990s,” Mr. Volkov said. “It’s a mix of grievances, all mixed together, plus propaganda, strengthened by Putin. It’s very serious.”

Russia’s Defense Ministry uses social media to daily recount what it says were heroic deeds on the battlefield. The stories, which invoke World War II-era heroism, are relayed by state television broadcasters and in local media.

An obituary published last month by a local paper in the Arctic city of Norilsk said three locals had given their lives fighting “shoulder-to-shoulder to expel the ghost of the Third Reich.”

A local news website in Orenburg, a central region bordering Kazakhstan, wrote last week that a local soldier drew enemy fire so others could escape. When they returned to retrieve his body, they found that he had blown himself up with his last grenade.

The outlet, Orenday, has tallied more than 80 deaths of soldiers from Orenburg alone, citing announcements by local authorities, universities, schools and relatives on social media.


Russian solder Georgy Gagiev died on Feb. 25 in the Ukraine war.


A 42-year-old mother in Orenburg said her son, who was killed in early March, had joined the army after graduating from college with a legal degree last year. The 21-year-old private died in Chernihiv, a military representative told her when he showed up at her home on March 10 to inform her of her son’s death.

“It’s prestigious to serve,” she said. She said she blamed Ukraine for the conflict.

In North Ossetia in southern Russia, Valeria Gagieva, 25, said almost everyone knows someone who has died in the fighting. Her cousin, 32-year-old Georgy Gagiev, died on the second day of the offensive near the northern Ukrainian city of Kharkiv, she said.

A captain in the National Guard, he had always wanted to defend his country, Ms. Gagieva said. She said people he served with told the family he jumped out of an armored vehicle after it came under fire and was subsequently blown up by an enemy grenade.

Her brother, who also serves in the National Guard, was wounded in the fighting, she said. He is now back on the battlefield after receiving treatment at a field hospital. Ms. Gagieva said she is worried she could lose him too, but is proud of him.


Russian soldier Elbrus Doev, 27, died on March 12 in the war in Ukraine.


Elbrus Doev, a former teacher, was known as the “computer doctor” in the North Ossetian village of Nogkau for repairing electronics for fellow villagers for free, according to his grandmother, Zamira Khamatkanova.

Mr. Doev, 27, died on March 12 when a shell hit his armored personnel carrier near “nationalist positions” outside Mariupol, his aunt, Kristina Bogaeva, said.

Ms. Bogaeva said she believes her nephew is a hero for defending Russia and liberating Ukrainians, and that he and other Russian soldiers are dying because the Kremlin is pursuing a policy of protecting Ukrainian civilians.

“Russian forces came to save them and send them humanitarian help from all over, and they still aren’t happy,” Ms. Bogaeva said. “Then why are we saving them? Let them die at the hands of the nationalists.”

link: https://www.wsj.com/articles/a...169?mod=hp_lead_pos8

The depths of swallowing propaganda are astounding; it is reminiscent of North Korea, but honestly I expected Russians to be a little more news savvy. It sounds like the Cold War never ended for some of these people.

^^^^ I'm not surprised one bit. The Leftist mainstream media stories here are bought hook line & sinker by half of the U.S. population. It's what happens under Commie rule, where they control (and poorly run) the news, education programs and state welfare.

Not that it will, but what this sort of thing should do is get people to stop wondering why people in the past in places like Nazi Germany and the various Communist totalitarian societies believed and did what they did.

quote:

“Biden, or however he is called, allowed for Nazism to flourish in Ukraine, and so Russia had to fight not only to protect its people and borders, but also the Ukrainian people, women, children, elderly.”

The paranoia and insecurity is strong

quote:

“There is a profession called defending your motherland,” said Mr. Kozubenko. “And if he didn’t die under a fence in a drunken or drug-addled stupor, or in a gang feud, but like a real man with a weapon in his hands, then that means it was an honorable death.”

Nothing wrong with serving your country but, how long do the sacrifices continue with very little gains? The US got done with 20yrs in Iraq and Afghanistan, the political leadership decided to walk-away in the worst way possible...if anything, there's enough citizens openly questioning the very motives and intent. Over in Russia, you question anything, you get taken away.

quote:

Mr. Kozubenko said he supports the offensive. “But I’m opposed to it being so humane,” he said. “As soon as there is a single shot from a residential area, it should be leveled to the ground. If you treat people like animals, you should be treated the same.”

Your country invaded a functioning (barely), sovereign country.

quote:

“There is a foundational understanding that the West is against us, that we wanted to be friends with them but they spat in our soul in the 1990s,” Mr. Volkov said. “It’s a mix of grievances, all mixed together, plus propaganda, strengthened by Putin. It’s very serious.”

They're not wrong...1990's West had a number of high-level politicians and career govt types that wanted to stand on the neck of a collapsed Soviet Union while Poland and other former Warsaw-pact nations benefited from an outstretched hand from the West.

quote:

Russia’s Defense Ministry uses social media to daily recount what it says were heroic deeds on the battlefield. The stories, which invoke World War II-era heroism, are relayed by state television broadcasters and in local media.

An obituary published last month by a local paper in the Arctic city of Norilsk said three locals had given their lives fighting “shoulder-to-shoulder to expel the ghost of the Third Reich.”

Continuation of paranoia and insecurity...sad really, seeing propaganda getting eaten by the ladle full, generation after generation. For a citizenry which has been able to travel most anywhere around the world, gain some perspective on what things are like outside their border and being able to listen/see different perspectives, its as if people are willfully ignorant to history and how things evolved. We understand Russia took an absolute pounding in WWII, so did the rest of Europe and The Far East...what have you guys done since then?

quote:

Ms. Bogaeva said she believes her nephew is a hero for defending Russia and liberating Ukrainians, and that he and other Russian soldiers are dying because the Kremlin is pursuing a policy of protecting Ukrainian civilians.

“Russian forces came to save them and send them humanitarian help from all over, and they still aren’t happy,” Ms. Bogaeva said. “Then why are we saving them? Let them die at the hands of the nationalists.”

If she's only referring to Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts, she'd have an argument to stand on but, the rest of the country isn't too fond of the Russians, and if the narrative is keep bringing-up WWII positions, then the Holodomor is fair game for discussion as well.

quote:

“I only blame America—not Ukraine, not Russia,” Mr. Akhromov, a 32-year-old parks-and-recreation worker, said. “Biden, or however he is called, allowed for Nazism to flourish in Ukraine, and so Russia had to fight not only to protect its people and borders, but also the Ukrainian people, women, children, elderly.”

#WhenFakeNewsIsOnlyNewsYouGet

Herr Goebbels would be proud of this.

Totalitarian government has been there now since the Revolution, over a hundred years now and all they hear is what the government wants them to hear.
China has had their version since 1949.
Not surprising people don't think for themselves.

The Nazi's had a pretty short run by comparison. We changed our approach to defeated enemies after WW1 and the post WW2 outcome was much better in Germany.
We should have learned and used a different approach in 1990 but we just felt good about the downfall of the commies and walked away. Now it's a Mafia type criminal government with nukes and oil.

Reading that makes me cringe, so the Russians still think Nazis are a thing? Wow, brainwashed as hell!

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
so the Russians still think Nazis are a thing?

Well, they are... They've just been stranded on their hidden moon base since all the alien batteries for their spaceships ran out of juice.


Seriously, though... Having a "boogeyman" is handy for a totalitarian regime, as it can be trotted out in the state-controlled media as a means to justify just about anything. Even better if that boogeyman harkens back to a majorly traumatic historical event for the country.

The NAZIs in Ukraine are a thing, but they'd have to take over all of the Ukraine before they could attack Russia again. They're real... but...

They're an excuse for the invasion, not the reason for it.

Either way, this war has few "good guys" in it on either side. A pox on both their houses.

quote:

Originally posted by whanson_wi:
The NAZIs in Ukraine are a thing, but they'd have to take over all of the Ukraine before they could attack Russia again. They're real... but...

They're an excuse for the invasion, not the reason for it.

Either way, this war has few "good guys" in it on either side. A pox on both their houses.

Peel the onion back a few more layers..
Historically, Ukrainians sided with Nazi Germany after Stalin put Ukraine through the Holodomor. There's historical issues that the Soviets paved over while the world grappled with an expanding and belligerent Germany. Nazi Germany came from 'the West', capitalism is from 'the West', homosexuality, etc is championed by 'the West', Charles XII and Napoleon came from 'the West'. Nazi is a Russian euphemism for 'the West'.

Socially, many Russians view Ukraine as 'historic brothers', much of Russian culture and its figures in history come from Ukraine, however Russia also takes a paternalistic position, especially when it comes to Slavic social standing, a point that rankles most Western and Southern Slavs.

You're not wrong that there's a handful of Nazi-immitating political/armed groups in Ukraine, but, don't use that as a pivot-point as there's plenty of other issues why there's flaws in Ukraine's complicity in this conflict.

Do the Ukrainian Nazis operate (or hope to operate) death camps or do they just hold socialist principles and are as racist as some Chinese, Japanese, Blacks, and many American Leftists?

A deeply-disturbing news item was just brought to my attention: Captive Russian troops claim commanders kill their own wounded soldiers

I'll take that with a grain of salt, given the amount of propaganda arising from this conflict, but, if true: Jesus Christ.

Meanwhile: Finland's Parliament approves NATO membership application

Yea: 188, Nay: 8, Abstentions (?): 0, Absent: 3

Russia will now have a NATO ally directly on its border it didn't have before, all because of concern over NATO membership of another bordering country that probably never would have happened in a million years.

Economy in tatters. Military badly embarrassed. Thousands killed or wounded. Half a neighboring country trashed.

Well done, Mr. Putin. Well done

quote:

A deeply-disturbing news item was just brought to my attention: Captive Russian troops claim commanders kill their own wounded soldiers

I'll take that with a grain of salt, given the amount of propaganda arising from this conflict,

I don't know if it's true or not, but if true: That might not be good for morale.
News like that would travel fast.

You'd better ALL watch this man - the bravest Russian I've seen so far - telling it like it REALLY is on live TV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF6TXAIe1tc