We just had the capacitor replaced on our furnace blower motor. The motor is making noise and the repair guy told me what I was already thinking, that the motor itself is going bad. He said replacing the motor would be around $500.

The furnace is a Trane xe90 installed in 1997 long before we bought the house. It looks like the burner impeller was replaced in the past, and we needed a new high limit switch this past winter. I have moved a lot for work, so I'm a bit reluctant to spend a lot on a new furnace. I also don't want to keep dumping money into this one if it's going to keep failing.

Bonus AC question:
The ac is an older unit with r22. Does replacing the furnace require replacing the refrigerant, and would that mean replacing the whole ac unit since the changes in the law?

Thanks.

$500 ain't $5000...... if the system is in good shape other than that, it's a less expense to repair.

That being said, you mMight as well get quotes on a new system

Won't hurt see what the cost will be to replace it, that way in the event you do go or have to get a new system you will know the costs.

If you do it will probably have the new coolant requirement.

New will be more efficient..

No, the refrigerant or AC system doesn't need to be replaced if you need a new furnace. The exception to this would be if for some strange reason the evaperator coil is built into the same space as the heating coil, and I've never seen that. If the rest of your system is good I say replace the motor. Do you have any reason to believe that your R22 system is on it's way out?

quote:

Originally posted by SgtGold:
No, the refrigerant or AC system doesn't need to be replaced if you need a new furnace. The exception to this would be if for some strange reason the evaperator coil is built into the same space as the heating coil, and I've never seen that. If the rest of your system is good I say replace the motor. Do you have any reason to believe that your R22 system is on it's way out?

No, I do not have any reason to suspect the ac is on its way out. I was just concerned that if the system needed to be opened, it would need a refrigerant that is no longer available and I'd need a new unit. In that case I would definitely go with the motor.

My concern with the furnace is just whether lots of parts start failing at this age. I'm leaning towards just doing the motor. Even with a $500 repair every year it'll still be cheaper for the time we are likely to still be in the house.

Thanks for the advice.

Seems a bit high for a motor. Could be a bearing. Get second opinion.

I would have a through inspection of the furnace including the heat exchanger first. Once you have that report then you make a decision either to repair or replace.

Check with your local utility and with your state to see if there are any rebates or tax breaks in conjunction with replacement.

Two other things. You said that you move often for work. How would the age and condition of the furnace affect the sale price of the home?
And the other thing, you probably have more negotiating power this time of the year, better than if the furnace goes out in a January cold snap.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:

If you do it will probably have the new coolant requirement.

New will be more efficient..

What's this 'new coolant requirement' which you mention?

XE90 is 90%, so it's not like it's really that bad to begin with.
Don't know about the A/C without numbers.

quote:

Originally posted by WyoRobert:
I was just concerned that if the system needed to be opened, it would need a refrigerant that is no longer available and I'd need a new unit.

No longer available? Who's feeding this line of BS to ya?

quote:

My concern with the furnace is just whether lots of parts start failing at this age.

With the replacement of the inducer, high limit and now the blower motor.... my concern would be airflow. I would bet something is a mis. The unit running hot and having airflow restrictions. Restricted flow causing blower motor to work harder. And the increased temperature to cause the inducer and high limit failures.

High limit is sorta like a self resetting fuse. It shouldn't be opening up on a properly operating furnace. A furnace cycling on the high limit is what makes them fail.

quote:

Originally posted by 9mmnut:
Seems a bit high for a motor. Could be a bearing. Get second opinion.

If the bearing is out, he's getting a new motor (direct drive blowers).
Pricing is probably in line for his area.

quote:

Originally posted by 9mmnut:
Seems a bit high for a motor. Could be a bearing. Get second opinion.

Typical motors in this application don't have replaceable bearings. Also, there are several refrigerants that will work in an existing R22 system, two being Freon MO99 and R453A. R407C is not a direct replacement, and I would steer clear of anyone recommending it. You can't mix the different gasses, you have to evacuate and refill.

I replaced both the blower motor and a control board at different times in my 1995 Goodman furnace over the years, each of which was in the $500-$600 range and kept it going for additional years. Just prior to retiring, finally replaced both the furnace and AC unit (which was requiring a refrigerant recharge every year) with higher efficiency units so I didn’t have to keep dealing with it. Just do a cost/benefit analysis for your particular situation and decide on your next steps.

Seems high to me, but I do all my own repairs that don't involve refrigerant. Last one I replaced was cheap, under $200, might have been just over $100 IIRC. Did it it fifteen minutes. Took longer to clean the blower wheel than swap motor.

Just saw a piece on the news last night regards R-22. Local HVAC guy said no longer manufactured after 12/31/19, so whatever is on hand at that point will be the end of it. Expecting prices for it to double or triple until it's gone. Also said conversion to 410A was an option assuming that the coil was still viable.

R22 patent from DuPont ran out many years ago. Under EPA law, they can't manufacture new virgin R22. The available R22 on the current market is through recycle program.

You can't put R410A into an old rusty 20 years old R22 system. A typical R410A is running at closer to 400 psig on the high side, while R22 is only at low 200 psi. I don't feel comfortable putting much pressure on the condenser unit. Copper line is ok for the new R410A.

I don't want to be a saleman for new system but at some point, you have to move on with your life.

Your best option is saving up the money for a newer modern system. Local utility company also has finance option available.

Several years ago, I got fed up when dealing with HVAC service techs. So, I went back to school to learn the new trade.

Good lucks,

1997?

You had a good 22 year run which is over the average. Time for a new system.

At my first place I owned, my Trane made it from 1989 (when the condo complex was built) to 2012, so 23 years.

Isn't the average like 15, maybe 20 years?

Just to give you an idea of how much more efficient these new systems are; at our current house we replaced a circa-1988 Trane last July with a Lennox system.

My electric usage in June 2018: 1,600 KwH
My electric usage in June 2019: 650 KwH*

*granted, an electric water heater also went gas for this upgrade, but still that's a HUGE difference!

quote:

Originally posted by dangho731:
R22 patent from DuPont ran out many years ago. Under EPA law, they can't manufacture new virgin R22. The available R22 on the current market is through recycle program.

Which is also making it get more and more expensive each year.

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:

If you do it will probably have the new coolant requirement.

New will be more efficient..

What's this 'new coolant requirement' which you mention?

XE90 is 90%, so it's not like it's really that bad to begin with.
Don't know about the A/C without numbers.

Referencing op's comment about having an R22 system and buying a new system which will run on the newer R410a refrigerant.

R22 production and import ends in 2020 by law that is the "requirement" part of it.

Being that R22 can no longer be imported or produced, so any new system you buy isn't going to be a R22 unit and will have the required non R22 refrigerant, most likely have R410a.

Banning or phasing out R22 is all part of a government response to global ozone depletion, Freon being one of the major named culprits.

My understanding is that by 2020 R22 is supposed to be done and the only way to get it will be paying big bucks for recycled R22 since import and production worldwide is supposed to be gone.

quote:

Originally posted by Sailor1911:
Just saw a piece on the news last night regards R-22. Local HVAC guy said no longer manufactured after 12/31/19, so whatever is on hand at that point will be the end of it. Expecting prices for it to double or triple until it's gone. Also said conversion to 410A was an option assuming that the coil was still viable.

Jan 1, 2020 is the date. But there's plenty of stock piles and refrigerant recycling programs.
You can NOT convert a 22 system over to 410.

quote:

Originally posted by dangho731:
R22 patent from DuPont ran out many years ago. Under EPA law, they can't manufacture new virgin R22. The available R22 on the current market is through recycle program.

Several years ago, I got fed up when dealing with HVAC service techs. So, I went back to school to learn the new trade.

Schooling failed ya, now you're just one of those HVAC service techs people complain about.

Limited manufacturing (4 million pounds to be exact) of R22 continues in 2019.
Ban on production stops Jan 1, 2020.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:

If you do it will probably have the new coolant requirement.

New will be more efficient..

What's this 'new coolant requirement' which you mention?

XE90 is 90%, so it's not like it's really that bad to begin with.
Don't know about the A/C without numbers.

Referencing op's comment about having an R22 system and buying a new system which will run on the newer R410a refrigerant.

R22 production and import ends in 2020 by law that is the "requirement" part of it.

Being that R22 can no longer be imported or produced, so any new system you buy isn't going to be a R22 unit and will have the required non R22 refrigerant, most likely have R410a.

Banning or phasing out R22 is all part of a government response to global ozone depletion, Freon being one of the major named culprits.

My understanding is that by 2020 R22 is supposed to be done and the only way to get it will be paying big bucks for recycled R22 since import and production worldwide is supposed to be gone.

The OP asked about keeping his old A/C and getting a new furnace installed.
With that, there's no 'requirement' for him to change or buy a new air conditioner.

Virgin R22 will be around for a very long time, recycled even longer. Not to mention all the replacement refrigerants which have been on the market for some time now.
You can still buy 'virgin' R12 and that all started back on Jan 1, 1996. Vehicles began being switched to R134a in 1994.

Freon has nothing to do with it. That's the generic reference to refrigerants. Just like Carrier referencing/marketing R410a as Puron. Chlorine is the culprit.
Theres three categories:
CFC's (includes R12) ban started Jan 1, 1996
HCFC's (includes R22) ban starts Jan 1, 2020
HFC's (includes R410a and R134a) which at this time, isn't being phased out.

Just trying to head of misinterpetations, as there's all kinds of shanagans being told the last few yrs.
One lady was just told her unit needed to be replaced because you could no longer purchase R22. To which she was told her unit contained.
You want to know the real kicker, her system, which was manufactured June 2013 (yes only 6 yrs ago) was manufactrued with R410a refrigerant. It's not only listed twice on the label, written on the side with a black marker and has the pink sticker on the cap with two more R410a printings. The tech was flat out wrong and tried to sell her a complete new system!

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by Sailor1911:
Just saw a piece on the news last night regards R-22. Local HVAC guy said no longer manufactured after 12/31/19, so whatever is on hand at that point will be the end of it. Expecting prices for it to double or triple until it's gone. Also said conversion to 410A was an option assuming that the coil was still viable.

Jan 1, 2020 is the date. But there's plenty of stock piles and refrigerant recycling programs.
You can NOT convert a 22 system over to 410.

You can run 407A in an R22, simply by evacuating the R22 and refilling with 407A it's a direct drop in that uses the same oil. While you can still get R22, it's hellified expensive and most outfits charge $65+ per pound for it. Last price I got on R22 30lb canister was $900 ($30 per pound) and that was over a year ago. I've never found recycled refrigerant to be as good as virgin. 407A is a direct drop in replacement and not banned, however it is only about 85% as efficient as R22. I went the other direction with 6 units filled with 407A on a yacht and filled them with R22 about 5 years ago, because they didn't have enough cooling capacity to keep the yacht. With 407A the units temps out of the vents were 56-58F and after swapping to R22 44-48F, and the new replacement 410 units are putting out 34-36F out of the vents, very short ductwork, same size btu units. If a unit is R22, and 10 years old or more and needs over $1000 in repairs, I just change the entire unit out.