17-y/o girl takes three shots to get her to drop the FREAKIN' knife.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=9EUaK_1557436139

She was trying to commit suicide by cop. If you read the news reports associated with it, she had called the police on herself several times, pretending to be a concerned anonymous citizen reporting a woman threatening other people with a knife, in order to get an officer to show up and kill her. (While investigating the incident, they discovered that the anonymous 911 calls had come from her own cell phone.)

So this isn't a matter of simply not understanding or not following commands, but of actively wanting to force the officer to kill her.

But like many suicidal people, once the pain and fear kicked in from the gunshots, she had a change of heart and decided she wanted to live.

Wouldn't this be good time to use a taser? Every time I've seen a taser used in a video the bad guy drops like a stone.

I'm not trying to second guess the LEO in this case, I'm just curious when a taser should be used.

Jim

Never used one but I'm guessing...

A taser is less intimidating than a firearm

A tazer is probably less accurate at a distance

A taser is a one shot so if she charges and you miss, you may not have time to get yo your duty weapon.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimbo54:
Wouldn't this be good time to use a taser? Every time I've seen a taser used in a video the bad guy drops like a stone.

I'm not trying to second guess the LEO in this case, I'm just curious when a taser should be used.

Jim

Yeah, taser would have been better if he had one, for sure.
This threat could have been managed.

Well she said she's sorry....

Shooting a suicidal kid with a knife has to weigh heavily on a cop in that situation. If she dies, it will be on his mind forever I would think.

Jim

Tac that's the fastest I've ever seen a Webley being fired... . Ta hells the latins doing spreading around the globe?

I know from experience that it is far easier to critique a use of force from video and reports than it is on the scene, when facing a weapon. A taser may or may not have been an option, but it was neither my call nor my ass.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimbo54:
Wouldn't this be good time to use a taser? Every time I've seen a taser used in a video the bad guy drops like a stone.

I'm not trying to second guess the LEO in this case, I'm just curious when a taser should be used.

Jim

1.Wouldn't this be good time to use a taser?

No, its a use of force involving a deadly weapon. Simply put, you meet deadly force with deadly force, not nerf guns or less than lethal force or pillows, or harsh words...that gets people killed.

2. Every time I've seen a taser used in a video the bad guy drops like a stone.

Taser's do not ALWAYS work. I know, it's happened to me, I got two broken ribs and 4 and half minute beating that was equal to the scene where Hulk smashes Loki...And the Taser was working properly. Drugs interfered with the LTL weapon. Where a good bashing with a hickory baton would have worked, those tools were taken away from cops because of PC bullshit.

3.I'm just curious when a taser should be used.

See answer to #1.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:

quote:

Originally posted by Jimbo54:
Wouldn't this be good time to use a taser? Every time I've seen a taser used in a video the bad guy drops like a stone.

I'm not trying to second guess the LEO in this case, I'm just curious when a taser should be used.

Jim

1.Wouldn't this be good time to use a taser?

No, its a use of force involving a deadly weapon. Simply put, you meet deadly force with deadly force, not nerf guns or less than lethal force or pillows, or harsh words...that gets people killed.

2. Every time I've seen a taser used in a video the bad guy drops like a stone.

Taser's do not ALWAYS work. I know, it's happened to me, I got two broken ribs and 4 and half minute beating that was equal to the scene where Hulk smashes Loki...And the Taser was working properly. Drugs interfered with the LTL weapon. Where a good bashing with a hickory baton would have worked, those tools were taken away from cops because of PC bullshit.

3.I'm just curious when a taser should be used.

See answer to #1.

Thanks for this. Nothing like firsthand experience to clarify a point. Believe me, I'm no liberal PC junky but without any experience or knowledge on the matter I was just curious. As I stated, I wasn't trying to second guess the cop that was put in that position.

Jim

From LEO’s I know consider a knife extremely dangerous. A person brandishing one can close the distance to attack you faster than many can clear leather and accurately shoot. Screw the taser, you would have to drop that, then go for your gun.

You can hear her say she's been waiting on him all day, then shoot me several times. Officer did everything he could to avoid contact until it was to much.

I wonder how much stupid people cost taxpayers every year. How many hundreds of thousands of dollars every day we spend on them and their care so they can continue to plague us with their presence.

Non LEO input. If you are the only cop in that scenario I think you have to stay with the deadly threat option. If backup arrives it seems to this non professional that having someone else try a LTL option might be on the table.

The backup officer that arrived towards the end was attempting to retrieve and deploy a less lethal shotgun (you can hear them mentioning it), but the girl charged the first officer and forced his hand before they could get it into play.

Excellent job by the officer. Tazer is an option but not when you are by yourself. Our protocol was primary weapon until second officer and then You stayed with Primary weapon and backup would deploy LTL.

quote:

Originally posted by RaiseHal:
I wonder how much stupid people cost taxpayers every year. How many hundreds of thousands of dollars every day we spend on them and their care so they can continue to plague us with their presence.

I have no idea but this wasn't a STUPID person, she was mentally ill. There's a huge difference in that one is treatable and one is not. I'm sorry that this happened to a sick young woman but the cop couldn't avoid it.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimbo54:
Wouldn't this be good time to use a taser? Every time I've seen a taser used in a video the bad guy drops like a stone.

I'm not trying to second guess the LEO in this case, I'm just curious when a taser should be used.

Jim

Not a cop, just a Monday morning quarterback, but...

That was a lot of restraint backing almost into the next county. I’d have been afraid of tripping. In MMQB mode, I might have just tried to keep the patrol car between us, but I wasn’t there, that might have been more of a trip hazard if there’s a curb or whatever. In any case, he absolutely went out of his way to try to avoid shooting her.

As far as taser instead of gun as a solo player, not just no, but *&$# no! She has a lethal weapon, I darn sure want one too, preferably one with more reach. Notice he called for expedited backup.

Now with one officer pointing a gun at her (or better yet two), a second (or better yet third) officer trying to tase her might seem like a good idea. If the taser works, great. If not, at least there is a more reliable stopper on standby.

No experience with tasers, but as a CHP friend explained to me, in order to get the incapacitation that looks so great on the videos, you not only need to get a hit, you need to get two hits with two separate darts that are spreading out as they travel, and those hits need to be far enough apart, while still hitting meat and making electrical contact. One COM in the chest and one in the sleeve, but not getting meat is not going to disable. Two darts hitting too close together is not necessarily going to disable. It may sting and shock, but not provide the neurological disconnect that you’re looking for. If that happens because someone is too close and they have a knife, it may be a very bad day. I don’t remember the numbers, but he said there was a deployment window where the odds were good, and it wasn’t that big. These numbers are probably all wrong, but it may have something like a minimum of 8 or 10 feet and a maximum of 14 or 16, and that’s assuming you make a good shot with that single shot that you have. Not something I’d want to deploy against someone threatening deadly force without solid backup that I trust implicitly to stop the threat if the taser fails. The beanbag, pepperball, or whatever shotgun seems like a much better plan as you get multiple shots with a much wider effective window.

It’s too bad that she got shot, but it was totally on her. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimbo54:
Shooting a suicidal kid with a knife has to weigh heavily on a cop in that situation. If she dies, it will be on his mind forever I would think.
Jim

Agreed.

She was still a young girl, after all, albeit lethally armed. A friend of mine in Northern Ireland in the Bad old days was shot in the head by a ten-year old who used an old Colt on him while he was checking the time for him.