I know we have some excellent and gifted plumbers on the board here...need your expertise, please.

I know I'm living on borrowed time with my water heater. House was built in 2003 and the original water heater is still up in the attic. I've had two inspections done on it, and both reports state the water heater is still in good condition. Despite that, I'd like to safeguard myself until such time I have to replace it due to catastrophic failure.

So I want to install some type of leak detection unit and a shut off valve so I don't open the door one evening and a small tidal wave gushes out the garage door. My buddy that's a great handy-man suggested this unit at Home Depot:

GROHE Sense Guard Smart Water Controller

https://www.homedepot.com/p/GR...r-22503LN0/307275458



It's a little more than I want to spend at $400, but if it'll do the trick, I guess $400 beats $4,000 in water damage. I have a contact for electrical that will run an outlet over to the water heater, so I have half the battle complete right there. But this unit looks like you'd install it at the entry point of your water line right after the main and it would shut off the water to your house if it detects a leak. I just want something that's specific to the water heater...not the whole house.

The bottom line question is always about cost, so is there a less expensive unit out there that any of y'all can suggest that will do the job? Thanks in advance for any and all ideas!!

For $400 and what you have to spend to have that installed, as you most likely have braised copper plumbing going to it, just spend a couple of $100 more and replace the water heater.

^^^^^
That cost, with installation and labor, ranges from $1,113 to $1,286...buddy did the research and gave me those numbers. To boot, my plan is to be outta this place in 3 years or less, so I'd really like to avoid replacement at this time. And I don't think this is fixing the problem with a band-aid. I believe it's a valid alternative to total replacement. Additionally, I'm pretty sure there are less expensive alternatives out there and I just need the guidance to see what those are.

I cannot answer your question but had two water heaters replaced this past weekend by a plumber. I obtained suggestions from Sig Forum before I bought one. The plumber who installed my two heaters would say buy a top of the line water heater, such as AO Smith, have a licensed plumber install and you will not have to worry about this sort of thing. Do not use the big box stores.

My cost installed for TWO was substantially less than your quote.

I also had the connector hoses replaced to the washer. The high pressure hoses were 33 bucks. He told me the rubber ones were just as good as the newer braided ones.

Again, I am NOT a plumber and would yield to those with a different opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by erj_pilot:
^^^^^
That cost, with installation and labor, ranges from $1,113 to $1,286. No offense, but not really a good suggestion, jimmy.

I get what you are saying. But your water heater is 16 years old, you are going to be spending the money to replace it much sooner than later. What you're going to spend to install the leak detector between materials and labor will be 50-60% of a new installed hot water heater, which you'll be needing to install anyhow. I'm very surprised your water heater has lasted as long as it has.

That being said, you should be able to install that device on the cold water inlet side of the water heater and it will detect any leaks on the hot water only side of your house and only shut off the hot water.

^^^^^
Can't afford the extra expense right now, and yes...I KNOW I'm living on borrowed time with a 16-year old water tank. By the time I move within my 3-year plan, I'll have the money to either replace it at that time, or give the buyer a credit off the selling price of this house towards the installation of a new one. This helps me bridge the cost gap between now and then. Probably gonna have to do the same dang thing with the roof...but that's another thread topic. I DO appreciate the input...

$400 ???

Taco is one of the leaders in the boiler industry.
Basically their normal zone valve with a controller and water detection sensor.
Their version is below for $150.
https://www.ecomfort.com/Taco-...NEAQYFCABEgIK9_D_BwE

If you Ebay, 99.50 or best offer. Free shipping.
https://www.ebay.com/p/1101468...NEAQYGyABEgKtjfD_BwE

The valve you are thinking about putting in will shut off the water pressure to the tank. Most always water heaters leak out the bottom. Even though the sensor shut the valve and hence the water pressure feeding the tank, you still have 40 gallons of water that will leak out the bottom of the tank, unless you already have a drain pan under it that drains somewhere that won't cause damage.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Not surprised here. Figured there were better options. Industry would never pay for something that costs 400 bucks. Advice from SIg forum may be free, but it is worth every penny in situations like this. Thanks for posting.

With leak detector and catastrophic failure using your numbers, you are out a minimum of $1513.

Without leak detector and catastrophic failure, you have $400 to go towards replacment and damage remediation.

If you are that concerned make a habbit of checking the tank for swelling and leaks on a frequent basis. These would indicate tank failure is approaching.

If catastrophic failure (tank bursts) occurs, that $400 might be nice to have for repairs.

Does the gizmo turn the water off or just alert you the flood is happening? If all it does is notify, is it worth it? If it shuts water off, that might be peace of mind.

To your point, might make the most sense at inlet to house so any failure would be monitored....


These are thoughts that went through my head as I read your post. Do what you wish with them.

Looking over the posts, Jimmy has the best solution. Spend a few more bucks and put in a new tank. Better yet, get a more reasonable estimate. My labor costs for putting in two new tanks were not that much.

If it's going to be $400 + install cost for the detector, and even then it may not prevent all the damage, then there's zero reason to not just spend another several hundred and just get a new unit.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
Better yet, get a more reasonable estimate. My labor costs for putting in two new tanks were not that much.

Unless that is labor alone, $1100-$1200 doesn't sound out of line for a decent water heater with install, especially considering they're going to have to haul it up into the attic and haul the old one down from the attic.

I just paid my plumber $1050 for a new Rheem water heater installed, and mine was in the garage.

I guess I got a good deal. Costs seem to vary a good bit by the amount of work available and geographic location. Costs here were through the roof for years after Katrina, and there was a shortage of trained craftsman. Costs have come down a good bit since, and there is less work to go around.

Again, plumbing is not my area. I know more about roofing and recall your roofing experience sometime back. My knowledge about roofing comes form replacing mine more than once due to hurricane damage.

A question for the knowledgeable among us - when a
water heater goes bad, do they predominately fail in one specific location?

I've had a number fail over the years, and I cannot recall ever having a leak under pressure spraying water about. It's always pouring out of the bottom of the unit, making a huge mess in the basement.

Does it have a drain pan underneath it, plumbed to a suitable discharge point? If it doesn't, that would be my first step.

Moving on to the flow sensing switches, the one you posted uses an algorithm to learn your water usage pattern. Wonder how long that takes, and how often it would misinterpret a hot shower for a leak. That would not be pleasant...

Finally, if the leak is low on the tank, you're still going to end up with a heck of a mess once the tank drains to the leak point, right?

All that said, the Taco looks like a better option, provided that the water leak obliges by directing itself towards the sensor.

Man, I'd hate to have a water heater in my attic.


***Edited to add***

SLowly typed this out while doing some web searches and watching TV. I see that others covered everything I brought up besides the cold shower threat. Gotta type faster...

While working with my Dads construction company, years ago, we replaced hundreds of leaking water heaters, averaged almost one per week for years.

In my experience...
Leaks that appear in water heater tanks are usually pencil lead size down to just a seep. Most of the time the hole is found near the top of the tank.
Water leaking, regardless of the leak location, spraying or just seeping usually appears at the bottom of the heater because the leaking water is contained by the outer tank jacket. The water runs down through the insulation to the bottom. That is why a pan under a heater is so effective. Pans MUST have a drain, believe it or not I have seen pans under heaters without drains. They simply fill up and run over.

USUALLY, due to the small size of the hole and the vacuum created in the tank the leaking mostly stops once the water is turned off... unless a faucet or other source allows air into the closed system.

MANY times a leaking heater is not even noticed until the moisture/steam from the leak corrodes the electrical bits to the point they fail and no more hot water.

Only you can weigh the location of the heater, pan or no pan and the potential for damage vs your peace of mind.

In all my years I can't remember proactively replacing a working, non leaking heater unless as part of a remodel or relocation.

If you have it in a pan... make sure it has a drain and that the drain actually works, not plugged up by debris, lint or insects etc... Seen that happen a few times. Run some water down it to confirm it is open.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
Looking over the posts, Jimmy has the best solution. Spend a few more bucks and put in a new tank. Better yet, get a more reasonable estimate. My labor costs for putting in two new tanks were not that much.

TACO for 150 or new water heater for 1k plus?

Erj_pilot is including a total price, water heater, supplies, tax and installation. 1k plus is normal.
You post your labor costs wasn't that much. Not a good comparison.

I will say, if anyone is installing 2 WH's for around a grand, it would have to be a simple install with electric heaters.
Any normal gas fired install will be around 1k or more.

As always, geographic location is always a factor, as is equipment location, installation requirements, permit requirements, etc.

I defer to the expert. Mine was a simple install with two electric heaters. His sounds more complex. Yours is indeed the cheaper solution.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
For $400 and what you have to spend to have that installed, as you most likely have braised copper plumbing going to it, just spend a couple of $100 more and replace the water heater.

Bingo

Good morning all...

I guess I wasn't being very clear. Right now...as in within the next 18-24 months...I don't have the funds to completely REPLACE the unit. Yeah...the actual cost of a new water heater itself might only be $200 or so more than this detector, but I will not be installing anything personally. I will have to employ the services of a reputable plumber, so that is going to jack the cost...up to $1,500+ MINIMUM, according to ffips. So for the next 18-24 months, I have to simply settle on mitigating the threat of a leak with a detection unit.

I looked further on Home Depot's site and found the less expensive detector I saw when I initially started looking into this...

Floodmaster Detector



Essentially does the same thing for $263. The Grohe is definitely a more "upscale" system (IMHO) and is something I'll look into when I build/buy my new place.

Thanks again for all the input, but understand that totally replacing the unit right now just isn't in the cards, even though I'd love for it to be...a matter of economics.

p.s. By the way...just looked and the Grohe unit was on sale for $399...it's now $500. As George Bush would say, "Not gunna duh it..."

quote:

Originally posted by rexles:
...unless you already have a drain pan under it that drains somewhere that won't cause damage.

The water heater currently sits in a drain pan that is in good condition and drains to the outside of the house. That was part of the inspection I got the other day...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: erj_pilot,

Why would you spend $263 for a brand of unknown quality?
TACO is a known leader in the boiler industry and is only $150.