Can't expect the cop to continue fighting forever. As the cop fatigues, be puts his life further and further into danger. If he's too tired to continue fighting, that's a lethal force situation as far as I'm concerned.

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
Can't expect the cop to continue fighting forever. As the cop fatigues, be puts his life further and further into danger. If he's too tired to continue fighting, that's a lethal force situation as far as I'm concerned.

Indeed. At some point it's time to go Indiana Jones on the SOB.

The worst part is way the people filming didn't help the cop??

quote:

Originally posted by 41:
The worst part is way the people filming didn't help the cop??

I'm not sure if the officer would've wanted interference from a non-leo in this incident.

If they guy was on drugs, PCP or otherwise, he could easily outlast the cop in a fist fight. At some point the LEO has to elevate his attack, unless he receives help. The gun did not kill the perp, drugs did.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
This is why I hate these video clips of shootings. The second vid sheds a LOT more light on this. Without the second vid, the first is out of context.

That dude pulled the taser wires out like a damn terminator or something!

And therein lies a huge problem. What if there were no second video? What if you end up on a jury and hear the officer's testimony paint a picture which mirrors the second video exactly but there is no video to corroborate his testimony.

Then the defense gets up, plays the first video and asks what you're going to believe, the fanciful testimony of the cop or your own eyes with which you just viewed the video which shows what truly happened?

quote:

Originally posted by FiveFiveSixFan:

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
This is why I hate these video clips of shootings. The second vid sheds a LOT more light on this. Without the second vid, the first is out of context.

That dude pulled the taser wires out like a damn terminator or something!

And therein lies a huge problem. What if there were no second video? What if you end up on a jury and hear the officer's testimony paint a picture which mirrors the second video exactly but there is no video to corroborate his testimony.

Then the defense gets up, plays the first video and asks what you're going to believe, the fanciful testimony of the cop or your own eyes with which you just viewed the video which shows what truly happened?

Exact scenario in a video evidence class I attended through the Force Science Institute. They showed 2 videos from different angles (dashcam and body camera from second officer) that you would have sworn the first officer shot the suspect for no apparent reason. Then they show us a third video from the first officer's view showing suspect was pulling a pistol out to shoot the second officer standing behind the suspect. Videos can only tell so much and only in certain angles and viewpoints.

Do parents not tell their children to respect officers anymore? Do they tell them to fight with them? How can one not realize resisting arrest and assaulting an officer can result in death?

Comply, don't die.

Not sure how much simpler it can get.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
Do parents not tell their children to respect officers anymore?

Few parents teach their kids to respect anyone anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by 41:
The worst part is way the people filming didn't help the cop??

I'm not sure if the officer would've wanted interference from a non-leo in this incident.

I am CERTAIN that the cop would have wanted non LEO "interference" in this incident, rather than resorting to his last resort of deadly force.

People don't step in to help because they're pussies. After reading this thread and seeing the video, the shoot looks pretty good to me. I never thought about the fatigue argument, makes perfect sense, esp. considering I'm in no shape to wrestle with a thug, particularly one going for my gun or other object to kill me.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
Do parents not tell their children to respect officers anymore?

Few parents teach their kids to respect anyone anymore.

As a high school teacher of 30 years experience, I can vouch for the truthfulness of this statement.

I do. My grandchildren I mean. They are taught to treat everyone with respect, especially those that wear a uniform as in military,firemen, police or the medical field. Teachers as well. Basically anyone that works for the public good. They are not allowed to address adults by their first names, it is always Mr. or Mrs. Smith. They will never hear me, my wife or my daughter bum rap anyone in one of those professions. If we have a complaint about someone in one of those professions it's made in private, not in front of the boys.

Turns out this 24 year old was dishonorably discharged from the Navy about five years ago - for behavioral issues and drug use. He continued his predilection and had been diagnosed with mental issues. He was prone to violence and had several brushes with the law. He had recently been paroled for yet another violent attack - and then failed to report or comply with any of his parole conditions.

He was a convicted felon, in violation of his parole, and he knew he was going back if the officer was able to ID him. He was homeless and had nothing to lose.

The officer had no idea what he was dealing with - in fact, it was more dangerous than he realized. The young man was a wild animal and sadly, the officer was forced to put him down.

quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
Turns out this 24 year old was dishonorably discharged from the Navy about five years ago - for behavioral issues and drug use...

http://www.ocregister.com/2017...olent-confrontation/

Man, 27, shot and killed by Huntington Beach officer battled drugs, failed Navy career, his brother says

By SCOTT SCHWEBKE | sschwebke@scng.com | Orange County Register
PUBLISHED: September 25, 2017 at 9:34 pm | UPDATED: September 26, 2017 at 12:00 pm

HUNTINGTON BEACH – Dillan Tabares, shot and killed by a Huntington Beach policeman last week during a violent confrontation outside of a 7-Eleven, struggled with drug abuse and a failed military career, his brother said on Monday.

The 27-year-old Huntington Beach native served in the U.S. Navy until he left with “less than an honorable discharge,” Brandon Tabares said.

Dillan Tabares enlisted in July 2008 and rose to the rank of information technology systems technician seaman E-3, Navy spokesman Cullen James said.

He received the Navy’s National Defense Service and the Global War on Terrorism Service medals. He left the Navy in April 2012; James said he wasn’t permitted to disclose if Tabares left the military on good terms.

In a March 2012 Facebook post, Dillan Tabares seems to allude to difficulties he faced in the Navy.

“At the beginning of this year I had a four-bedroom house and three cars,” the post says. “A good job and a future. Now I have nothing but my freedom, which will soon be taken away.

“I have ruined everything,” the post goes on to say. “I have lost the future I have worked so hard to get over these last four years. Now everything is gone. Top-secret security clearance gone, $45,000 dollars for school gone, the three different IT certification(s) I was working on will now go uncompleted.”

Brandon Tabares said his brother, toward the end of his Navy stint, began to use marijuana heavily to battle depression and a failed marriage.

After Dillan Tabares left the Navy, the two backpacked around the U.S. and then returned to Southern California where they lived together.

Eventually, Dillan Tabares started using methamphetamine and began living on the street, his brother said.

He was known among other transients as “the boy in the woods,” because he often hung out in Huntington Central Park, which has a lot of trees and he also liked to frequent secluded areas, his brother said.

He did like to hang out as well at the Huntington Beach Public Library, where he could read books and use the internet, Brandon Tabares said.

The last time Brandon Tabares saw his brother was in November, when he invited him once again to live at his Costa Mesa house. He held a welcome home party for him that didn’t go as planned.

“All my friends were very accepting of him, but it didn’t click,” Brandon Tabares said.

He wasn’t surprised that Dillan Tabares fought with the Huntington Beach officer before being fatally shot.

“Dillan is not the type of person to get in your face and start a confrontation with you, but if you come up to him he has no qualms about defending his existence,” he said.

Friday’s violent encounter, captured by at least two witnesses’ videos, occurred at the store across the street from Marina High School, which Dillan Tabares attended.

In one nearly two-minute video, posted on YouTube and apparently taken from inside a parked vehicle outside of the 7-Eleven, DillanTabares can be seen advancing toward the officer, who has a weapon drawn, possibly a Tazer.

The officer, backing away, appears to say, “Have a seat,” but Dillan Tabares continues approaching and punches the officer twice. Then the officer grabs him in a headlock, both fall to the ground and continue to fight.

Tabares,who is punched several times, grabs something from the officer’s utility belt. The officer gets free and back on his feet and ends up firing seven shots.

Another video shot by a different witness shows Tabares, after being shot, turning and leaning back and falling against the window of the 7-Eleven, with a dark object appearing to fall from one of his hands as he collapses to the ground.

The officer wasn’t injured.

Brandon Tabares said he isn’t sure why his brother acted aggressively toward the officer, but he speculated he may have grown weary of living.

“Maybe Dillan was tired of being the boy in the woods, and maybe he wanted to move to something more beautiful,” he said.

Police haven’t said what possibly prompted the confrontation, why the officer was at the 7-Eleven, or whether Tabares had a weapon.

Huntington Beach Police Chief Robert Handy has said the officer tried to subdue the suspect with a Tazer. The chief added it appears the officer was justified in using deadly force because he was being attacked.

So basically suicide by cop.

---------------------------------------

A successful intervention with a long lasting rehab. Let's hope that young officer can deal with what that asshole made him do.

quote:

Originally posted by muzzleloader:
A successful intervention with a long lasting rehab. Let's hope that young officer can deal with what that asshole made him do.

I for one hadn't thought of that. I hope he focuses on making the Country a better place and has little or no remorse.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by 41:
The worst part is way the people filming didn't help the cop??

I'm not sure if the officer would've wanted interference from a non-leo in this incident.

If I am fighting someone alone I'll gladly take all the help I can get from whoever.
If some strange circumstance(can't really think of one at the moment) was there I'd let them know if they tried.