Medical Marijuana = Surrender Your Guns



PHILADELPHIA — The town drunk can buy firearms. So can someone who has been involuntarily placed in a mental hospital for a short stay. But anyone who wants to treat Crohn’s disease with medical marijuana is forbidden from owning a gun.

Pennsylvania is preparing to roll out a statewide program early this year that will provide medicinal cannabis products to patients suffering from 17 serious health conditions. But some sick people will have to make a difficult decision: Is taking the medicine worth surrendering what gun-owning advocates see as an enshrined constitutional right?

“It’s hypocritical,” said lawyer Andrew Sacks, the co-chair of the Pennsylvania Bar Association’s Medical Marijuana and Hemp Law Committee.

“You can be an opioid addict, or buy a bottle of rum, drink it and go to a store and buy one,” Mr. Sacks said. “But a person who is registered as a medical marijuana patient in Pennsylvania, and has a very small dosage of THC, can’t own a gun to protect themselves or hunt.”

A state police spokesman strongly suggested that patients also consider the consequences of holding on to any guns bought before enrolling in the medical marijuana program .

“It’s unlawful to keep possession of firearms obtained prior to registering,” said Ryan Tarkowski, a state police spokesman. “The Pennsylvania State Police is not in the business of offering legal advice, but it might be a good idea to contact an attorney about how best to dispose of their firearms.”

Twenty-nine states have legalized marijuana in some form.

But under federal law, all forms of marijuana remain strictly forbidden. The Drug Enforcement Administration considers it a Schedule 1 drug, on par with heroin and LSD, with “no currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse.”

The federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives regulates the sale and ownership of guns and ammunition across the nation. ATF spokeswoman Cherie R. Duvall-Jones said any use of marijuana is a disqualifier.

“There are no exceptions in federal law for marijuana purportedly used for medicinal purposes, even if such use is sanctioned by state law,” Ms. Duvall-Jones said.

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in 2016 that the federal prohibition does not violate the Second Amendment.

The National Rifle Association has remained silent on the issue. A spokesman did not respond to a request for comment.

Gun dealers were sent an ATF bulletin in 2016 that left no room for loopholes. A dealer who even suspects that a customer may be using cannabis is obliged to stop a sale, Ms. Duvall-Jones said. Federal regulations bar firearms ownership to anyone who illegally uses a controlled substance or might be addicted to any drug.

Alcohol is not considered a controlled substance, Ms. Duvall-Jones said. “Therefore, a person who is addicted to distilled spirits, wine or malt beverages would not be prohibited” under the law, she said.

A federal judge in Pittsburgh ruled last month that the government could not restrict the gun ownership rights of a man who had been involuntarily placed in a psychiatric hospital.

In Pennsylvania, firearms dealers must conduct a background check on each customer. A registry, administered by the state police, identifies medical marijuana patients.

“If you’re a card holder, you’ll be flagged,” said Mr. Tarkowski, the state police spokesman.

But even before the background check is run, all customers must fill out a Form 4473, a firearms transaction record required by the U.S. Department of Justice.

One yes/no question asks:

Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug or any other controlled substance? Warning: the use of possession marijuana remains unlawful under federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.

“It’s game over if you check ‘yes,’ ” said Jim Benoit, owner of Cajun Arms in West Chester, Pa. “I can thank you for coming by, but I’ll have to tell you I can’t sell you this gun.”

Patients also may be required to surrender guns and ammo bought before joining the marijuana program, whether they are using the medicine or not. Police in Honolulu fired off letters last month to patients ordering them to turn in their weapons. The following outcry had the department put the order on hold two days later. No other jurisdiction has made a similar request.

The issue has been a hot-button topic in New England states that have legalized marijuana, said Becky Dansky, legislative counsel of the national Marijuana Policy Project, which opposes prohibitions.

“The compromise most of those states are reaching is ‘no new guns for patients,’ but they’re not tracking down guns and asking them to be surrendered,” Ms. Dansky said.

"The Drug Enforcement Administration considers it a Schedule 1 drug, on par with heroin and LSD..."

If I am correct doesn't Pennsylvania require a brief psychological evaluation for a CCW?

While i disagree completely with having to choose when others can abuse drugs/alcholo and still own a gun. I laughed hard at the suggestion that some sick people will have to make a difficult decision.

As many people i know who have Crohns and are allowed marijuana it helps their symptoms so much. As some one who has suffered greatly at the hands of Crohns I would sell all of my guns in a heartbeat to get relief. This should not however be an ultimatum situation.

No psych exam requirements in PA for a CCW permit. No training or education requirements. The County Sheriff is the issuing office. If your County Sheriff is not a fan or has a long wait time you can even go to an out of county Sheriff as an option. Pretty free wheeling.

quote:

No psych exam requirements in PA for a CCW permit. No training or education requirements. The County Sheriff is the issuing office. If your County Sheriff is not a fan or has a long wait time you can even go to an out of county Sheriff as an option. Pretty free wheeling.

Good to hear. Thanks I had gotten it confused with the requirements for security officer. See the link here: https://act235testing.com

Washington has this listed on their faq about a state medical Marijuana card.

"May I purchase a gun if I am a medical marijuana patient in the database?

The medical marijuana authorization database is in no way connected to any other system and does not affect your right to purchase or carry a gun. However, under federal law, marijuana possession is illegal for both recreational and medical use. The federal law affects gun ownership. It is unlawful for a firearms dealer to sell or give a gun to a person who uses or is addicted to a controlled substance that is illegal under federal law."

They seems to be happy with ambiguity.

Well, yeah - they don't have to spend time and money to enforce ambiguity.

That will be the situation as long as the feds criminalize weed. Call your congressman if this is something you want to see change.

I was told by a friend recently about a customer stinking of pot smoke, both he and the gun shop turned the customer away. I'll just be good concerning the issue but, I've been doing some reading of late, anout a product called CBD which is showing positive results on human brain neurons and receptors which may counter things like alzhiemers, maybe parkisins and other aflictions caused by non reactive brain cells. I cannot describe that better. This CBD is derived from the plant and it even shows promise against the feeling of addiction to herion and some other dangerous substances. I only know what I've read so far.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
That will be the situation as long as the feds criminalize weed. Call your congressman if this is something you want to see change.

Bingo.

I have mixed feelings, but they all end with "Tough shit, though. 21 USC 841 et seq."

"State-legal" weed is never more than one tiny change in enforcement policy at DoJ from being a huge freakin' headache for all concerned.

What does marijuana do for Chrons?

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
If I am correct doesn't Pennsylvania require a brief psychological evaluation for a CCW?

Negative.

No such thing required to obtain PA CCW.

No matter what the states do, pot is still illegal under federal law. Until that changes, pot use, whether it's legal under state law, is going to have negative legal side effects.

quote:

Good to hear. Thanks I had gotten it confused with the requirements for security officer. See the link here: https://act235testing.com

See my above post.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
That will be the situation as long as the feds criminalize weed. Call your congressman if this is something you want to see change.

Wondering, given the present Congress and Senate, do you honestly think they would repeal the cannabis part of the controlled substance act?

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
That will be the situation as long as the feds criminalize weed. Call your congressman if this is something you want to see change.

Wondering, given the present Congress and Senate, do you honestly think they would repeal the cannabis part of the controlled substance act?

Not now. Maybe as the states change. Ten years is my guess.

Illinois has the same type Law, apply for a state medical marijuana card, you give up your FOID (Firearms Owners Identification Card) which is required to own, buy, poses firearms. Forget a CCL!

quote:

Originally posted by SHOOTIN BLANKS:
. . ."You can be an opioid addict, or buy a bottle of rum, drink it and go to a store and buy one,” Mr. Sacks said. “But a person who is registered as a medical marijuana patient in Pennsylvania, and has a very small dosage of THC, can’t own a gun to protect themselves or hunt". . .

No you can't. Not legally. In the first case (being an opioid addict) you'd have to lie about it, and that would be a felony. In the second case (making a gun purchase immediately after drinking a full fifth of rum) the FFL would have to be willing to sell a gun to a shit-faced drunk. Just how likely is that? Not at all likely.

Mr. Sacks is full of shit.

quote:

Originally posted by divil:

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
If I am correct doesn't Pennsylvania require a brief psychological evaluation for a CCW?

Negative.

No such thing required to obtain PA CCW.

Yeah, everyone over 21 gets one in PA. No classes needed either.