quote:

Originally posted by RAMIUS:

An update in case anyone is interested.

I spoke to the Lowe's store manager this morning. He was genuinely concerned for what happened and contacted the contracted company who fulfilled and installed the dryer.

About 5 minutes after speaking to the Lowes manager, a person who handles these sorts of issues from the contracted company called me. I informed him of what happened and he basically asked what I wanted.

I just sent him this email of my requests

Standing by for your update, with their response.

quote:

Originally posted by r0gue:
Asking for a new fire extinguisher for the last item was classic. Entirely appropriate, and it was the cherry on top that tells them this was deadly serious.

Absolutley. And I would also expect Lowe’s to make it right. It’s their sub, they need to make it right and then deal with the problem internally.

Most of the demands seem reasonable, however full replacement and reimbursement seems over the top asking for compensation for the situation above and beyond making you whole, but that's up to the installer and Lowes to decide if it's acceptable terms. Doesn't hurt to ask

The title of the threads a bit off, the Dryer from Lowes didn't cause the fire, the improper install from the company you contracted with caused the fire.

Improperly installed Dryer caused an Electrical Fire last night.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by XLT:

Why don't you just ask them for a brand new free house. Good Grief !!

Yeah well, they deserve it. They sent those asshats. I seriously cannot comprehend a grown man whose job it is to do this stuff doing what he did. I really can't. Especially in the age of YouTube. That is some superpower level incompetence there, and Lowe's needs to eat it.

His wife was warned twice about an error code 4, he looked it up on the interwebs said it was an electrical issue, instead of calling them and letting them know there is an issue, he pushed the ON button. did his wife push the on button? doesn't sound like it. in my opinion he needs to bear some of the responsibility.

People make mistakes, we all do. trying to milk it for all it's worth because as you say they sent "asshats out" is wrong in my opinion. I would bet that lowes had them for the cheapest price, but that doesn't mean it should have been hooked up incorrectly. if you buy you're appliances from big box stores your not going to get the same service like you would from a appliance specialty shop. He could have went hired an electrician to hook the dryer up. for all we know he could have played electrician.

Properly wired circuit would have tripped the breaker instantly.

My 2 cents based on 10 years wearing an Orange Apron - the Maroon Vest place may be different:

The delivery guys are just that - they are not electricians or plumbers. They bring it to the room, connect it, and maybe turn it on, and only if the proper gas piping or electrical receptacle is already installed.

If the hot and ground wires that were mixed up were inside the dryer, that's not something HD delivery/installers would have messed with. They wouldn't open up the dryer and mess with the wires. Thus, a mixup at the Whirlpool factory.

Was the house equipped with the correct 4-prong dryer receptacle? If not, the HD delivery guys would have told you to have an electrician replace the receptacle and then call HD back when ready. The delivery guys aren't electricians and don't install receptacles.

Electrician summary

Summary

Customer contacted me on September 24, 2019 around 11am stating that their new dryer had caught fire in the dryer duct. Sparks were seen in the outlet and a large flash at the back of the washing machine caused an electrical failure to the unit and circuit.


Impact

Loss of power to the circuit and dryer unit, damage to the 220v appliance outlet and 120v outlet, tripped out 30amp 2 pole breaker and 20amp single pole breaker in panel.


Root cause

Ample voltage and continuity tests were conducted to determine that the power cord was improperly wired in the back of the dryer.
A hot leg was terminated to the neutral terminal and the neutral was terminated to the line terminal. Once the unit was powered on line voltage and current were both applied and sent through the chassis of the dryer and dryer duct. The dryer duct then was in direct contact with the washing machine, leading to an instant ground fault causing an electrical discharge, known as an “arch flash”. This in turn vaporized the dryer duct, back and side of the washing machine and part of the wall as well.


Resolution

Upgrade original breakers to arc fault breakers to prevent any future electrical fires. Replace both appliance receptacles due to concerns that the receptacles are susceptible to damage from the current overflow during the ground fault.

So, the cord was incorrectly connected by the Lowes delivery guys, rather than the factory wiring to those terminals was wrong?

quote:

Originally posted by XLT:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by XLT:

Why don't you just ask them for a brand new free house. Good Grief !!

Yeah well, they deserve it. They sent those asshats. I seriously cannot comprehend a grown man whose job it is to do this stuff doing what he did. I really can't. Especially in the age of YouTube. That is some superpower level incompetence there, and Lowe's needs to eat it.

His wife was warned twice about an error code 4, he looked it up on the interwebs said it was an electrical issue, instead of calling them and letting them know there is an issue, he pushed the ON button. did his wife push the on button? doesn't sound like it. in my opinion he needs to bear some of the responsibility.

I don't believe you for a second that you wouldn't try the dryer yourself and just take your wife's word for what exactly is going on. Not for a second. The OP doesn't bear any responsibility for this negligence.

quote:

People make mistakes, we all do. trying to milk it for all it's worth because as you say they sent "asshats out" is wrong in my opinion.

"Milking it for all it's worth" is not what I see going on. Not even close.

quote:

He could have went hired an electrician to hook the dryer up. for all we know he could have played electrician.

Any competent person who can read a book or pull up a YouTube video could have safely wired up that plug. These guys were asshats.

quote:

Properly wired circuit would have tripped the breaker instantly.

You sure about that?

In any case, if I negligently wire up an appliance that ends up killing someone, I don't get to say, "Oh well, don't look at me; the breaker should've tripped."

quote:

Originally posted by mikeyspizza:
My 2 cents based on 10 years wearing an Orange Apron - the Maroon Vest place may be different:

The delivery guys are just that - they are not electricians or plumbers. They bring it to the room, connect it, and maybe turn it on, and only if the proper gas piping or electrical receptacle is already installed.

If the hot and ground wires that were mixed up were inside the dryer, that's not something HD delivery/installers would have messed with. They wouldn't open up the dryer and mess with the wires. Thus, a mixup at the Whirlpool factory.

Was the house equipped with the correct 4-prong dryer receptacle? If not, the HD delivery guys would have told you to have an electrician replace the receptacle and then call HD back when ready. The delivery guys aren't electricians and don't install receptacles.

I have bought several new dryers over the past 20 years from a variety of sources. As I recollect none have had a cord included with them installed by the manufacturer. They all needed to have a cord purchased to match the outlet in the laundry room and hooked to the dryer by whoever installed the dryer.


Originally posted by HRK

“The title of the threads a bit off, the Dryer from Lowes didn't cause the fire, the improper install from the company you contracted with caused the fire.”

As I read it, Lowes contracted with the delivery guys who screwed the pooch.

I hope everything turns out ok for you. Lowes is pretty stand up and should take of you.
My thought on this is Lowes has free delivery on appliances. It’s kinda of an expectation. Deliveries are an expense though. Lowes uses contractors that do the job. Here in Tidewater you call a separate number from the store to set it up. I think they use the lowest bidder to do the job. I could be wrong but those companies have no skin in the game.
I would look to a local seller for appliances. Generally they match price, services and financing. Some locals belong to buying groups like Brand Source and Nationwide. Those groups have the buying power of big boxes. If price is equal, look at the service side. Most local retailers have more skin in game.

Some people here seem to think the OP is at fault in some way. I call BS.

He bought the appliances from Lowes and paid Lowes for installation. While I have never used their services both HD and Lowes offer setup and all with appliances purchases.

quote:

if you buy you're appliances from big box stores your not going to get the same service like you would from a appliance specialty shop. He could have went hired an electrician to hook the dryer up. for all we know he could have played electrician.

I will agree your likely not get the same service but that doesn't mean you shouldn't expect them to install and wire it correctly if it was part of the purchase.

I've never seen an electric dryer come with the cord. It's always an add on. The delivery guys will normally not touch this so why did they hook it up, because of the OP paid for this service.

I'm not one to try and get stuff from someone but I do believe they are responsible for the damage do to improper wiring.

quote:

Originally posted by mikeyspizza:

If the hot and ground wires that were mixed up were inside the dryer, that's not something HD delivery/installers would have messed with. They wouldn't open up the dryer and mess with the wires. Thus, a mixup at the Whirlpool factory.

Completely wrong, as the electrical pig tails are NOT provided or factory installed.
They are connected by the people who deliver and connect the appliance.

Had it been a factory mistake, it'd be an issue for Lowe's and the manufacture. Not with Lowe's and the installation company.
However, the installers SHOULD have check the appliances operation after completing the hook up.

quote:

Originally posted by XLT:

Properly wired circuit would have tripped the breaker instantly.

That's a BIG negative.

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by XLT:

Properly wired circuit would have tripped the breaker instantly.

That's a BIG negative.

No its not, if you have the ground wire connected to one of the hot leads it's a dead short and that breaker will trip instantly.

I just had Lowe's deliver a range and a range cord, but not install the slide in range or hook up the cord because I needed to have the granite counter trimmed to fit. However, had it fit, they would've connected the cord and installed it in the hole.

That being said, when I went to install the range, the new 3 wire cord they brought with the range, the ends are not labelled as to which is which (Line/neutral/etc.) I had to trace the wire from the plug itself to figure out which one the neutral was. So I could see a delivery guy rushing and not paying attention, do this (does not make it right).

quote:

Originally posted by XLT:

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by XLT:

Properly wired circuit would have tripped the breaker instantly.

That's a BIG negative.

No its not, if you have the ground wire connected to one of the hot leads it's a dead short and that breaker will trip instantly.

Been in the electrical/HVAC field for almost 30 years and can tell you breakers don’t always trip. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve changed out brand new breakers that would not trip, and countless others that had been in use for years. I once even changed out a brand new 1200 amp breaker that tested ok at the factory.

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by mikeyspizza:

If the hot and ground wires that were mixed up were inside the dryer, that's not something HD delivery/installers would have messed with. They wouldn't open up the dryer and mess with the wires. Thus, a mixup at the Whirlpool factory.

Completely wrong, as the electrical pig tails are NOT provided or factory installed.
They are connected by the people who deliver and connect the appliance.

Had it been a factory mistake, it'd be an issue for Lowe's and the manufacture. Not with Lowe's and the installation company.
However, the installers SHOULD have check the appliances operation after completing the hook up.

Store-bought dryer cords all have connectors on the ends - not pigtails. Pigtails have a connector on one end and loose wires on the other which must be spliced to other wires.

I'm saying that all the internal wiring is connected to the terminal block at the factory. Installing the cord involves connecting the connector ends of the cord to the correct terminals on the outside of the terminal block. In the video, he is not doing anything with the wires on the back/hidden side of the terminal block that were connected at the factory.

My question is: Did the Lowe's installers connect the cord ends to the wrong terminals, or did they connect to the correct terminals but the internal wires were connected to the wrong terminals on the inside.

quote:

Originally posted by mikeyspizza:

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by mikeyspizza:

If the hot and ground wires that were mixed up were inside the dryer, that's not something HD delivery/installers would have messed with. They wouldn't open up the dryer and mess with the wires. Thus, a mixup at the Whirlpool factory.

Completely wrong, as the electrical pig tails are NOT provided or factory installed.
They are connected by the people who deliver and connect the appliance.

Had it been a factory mistake, it'd be an issue for Lowe's and the manufacture. Not with Lowe's and the installation company.
However, the installers SHOULD have check the appliances operation after completing the hook up.

Store-bought dryer cords all have connectors on the ends - not pigtails. Pigtails have a connector on one end and loose wires on the other which must be spliced to other wires.

I'm saying that all the internal wiring is connected to the terminal block at the factory. Installing the cord involves connecting the connector ends of the cord to the correct terminals on the outside of the terminal block. In the video, he is not doing anything with the wires on the back/hidden side of the terminal block that were connected at the factory.

My question is: Did the Lowe's installers connect the cord ends to the wrong terminals, or did they connect to the correct terminals but the internal wires were connected to the wrong terminals on the inside.

[FLASH_VIDEO]<iframe frameborder="0" height="408" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/iV3oY7aEowg" width="725"></iframe>[/FLASH_VIDEO]

In the first post in this thread he states that the install crew miswired the cord into the back of the dryer. Pretty straightforward.

quote:

Originally posted by mikeyspizza:

Store-bought dryer cords all have connectors on the ends - not pigtails. Pigtails have a connector on one end and loose wires on the other which must be spliced to other wires.

Might I suggest you Google 'dryer pigtail'?
That is an industry term...

quote:

Originally posted by XLT:

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by XLT:

Properly wired circuit would have tripped the breaker instantly.

That's a BIG negative.

No its not, if you have the ground wire connected to one of the hot leads it's a dead short and that breaker will trip instantly.

Nope.

How do you think 120 volt works?
The thing is wired to 120 volts instead of 240.

Dead short would be hot to ground with nothing in between.