quote:

Originally posted by 21bubba:
His mind is made up. He will buy this one or it's equal. All he wants is validation.

Don't got none for him on this.

Everyone's talking about how long these vehicles last, but, Black appears to consider buying a different car/truck every 90 days. If he buys this thing, he won't have it in two years, forget about him owning it for a decade or more.

quote:

Originally posted by 21bubba:
His mind is made up. He will buy this one or it's equal. All he wants is validation.

Not quite. While I am pretty much set on a Tundra but will be looking for lower mileage. This was the first TRD to pop up under 30k which is my max search limit as I would like to be in the truck for 25k a little more if needed. So the TRD Pro kind of sidetracked me away from thinking that mileage was not too bad of an idea. But just like the thoughts of buying the 7 series with the V12 you all brought me back.

As a Ford Guy (I say this because I currently own 3 Fords and have owned 7 total in 22 years). I have also owned a 1989 Chevrolet Silverado and currently own a 2000 Silverado and 2015 Suburban.

First off I will not buy another Chevrolet or any vehicle for that matter with the cylinder deactivation nonsense! I have had awesome luck with vehicles (knock on wood) and I even owned a German Sports car out of warranty!
My wife and I highly enjoy our Suburban but one should not have to buy a $200 dongle to trick the truck into staying in V8 mode so it drives like it should. It is a GM certified truck with 55k miles and we have owned it since January and the oil pan has already been replaced due to a gasket failure, a seat heater had to be replaced, the truck leaked they just put a new roof antenna on it with out actually tracking down the leak. A week later when it rained the leak was still there. Turns out the windshield sealant had given way.
Even without these multiple problems that have slightly tarnished my enjoyment of Chevy trucks I plan to off road this truck and there is very little aftermarket support for the Silverados.
I can’t find a single aftermarket skid plate for the truck anywhere.

Why I will likely not buy the F150. I enjoy my Expedition I am frustrated over the catastrophic brake failure it had under 60k miles and the shocks were leaking about 45k miles. Many folks like all the technological goodies I am not particularly a huge fan as they cost most of money when they go bad. I believe the F150 has 20 some computer modules.
The Ford is a very nice truck no doubt about that and for the most part generally reliable. As for off-roading after market parts there is a pretty decent selection and pretty much everything I will be adding is available just not exactly the setup I would like.

As for the Tundra I just like the truck better overall. As for reliability they are solid no way around it. The father in law had an early 90s Tacoma that he drove the wheels off of and replaced with a brand new 2007 Tundra he still has today with 260k miles I believe. He does not take the greatest care of the truck but it has had no issues outside of regular maintenance. We had a Highlander for 7 years before the Suburban and it had absolutely zero issues either.
I am becoming a bit of a Toyota fan boy. I had 2013 and 2015 base 2wd 4Runners for work and absolutely hated those things. Almost refused to look at the Highlander because of them. Got a 2015 Tacoma for a work vehicle and it I did enjoy. It was a sweet little truck, little being the only problem.
The Tundras are about 2-3k more than a similarly equipped F150 but I am good with that. The Tundra has by and far the most aftermarket support for off-roading.

So I search both Tundras and F150s nightly but no F150 has really stood over a Tundra for me.

Hopefully Saturday I can get the Expedition back to factory height and tires then I will fully pursue another truck.

If I had to choose a truck with a twisty frame, or a stupid radio design, or super expensive replacement parts, or outdated technology, or... Screw it.

Better yet, shop for the truck that has the Fox suspension instead of wishing you did. Can you see yourself doing a suspension swap a few years down the road if the soon to be your next ride has Bilsteins?

Different trucks mean different things to different drivers. So if the radio in the 'Yoda sounds like cans with strings, consider the F150 radio. If you want to swap from one factory radio to a fancy factory radio, you'll have to buy the entire harness and remove the dash from the truck! Yay! The radios in either one are as good as what they put in the Dodge... from 2006. The Chevy will have a higher tensile strength frame than the Toyota or Ford of the same vintage and not flex as much. Drum brakes, for what they are, should work okay for a commuter truck. There is no way I'd consider a lift kit or bigger tires on something equipped as such. I don't think you can find a Chevy truck with drum brakes on it unless you went to a '60s car show.

Regardless of what you buy, My advice is shopping for the replacement parts by the factory part number and only buying OEM parts that have the same number. I learned real quick that buying cheap parts is exactly that.

There are many who will swear by a certain model. There are just as many who will swear at it.

quote:

Originally posted by FN in MT:
I have no skin in this fight, simply making an observation as I looked at trucks recently.

Pay MORE for the Tacoma vs the Chevrolet. Then in 5 years get a little more if you sell it. Are you getting the DIFFERENCE between what you paid for the two? I doubt it.

I'm sorry I can't help but realize the Taco's are overpriced for the level of technology or equipment compared to a similarly priced Chevy.

The interior is weird, like you're sitting in a car, not upright like in a truck. The interior is cheap looking, Crap sound system. I don't care if I get ALL my purchase price back in 5 yrs..It's a crappy interior. I have to sit there.

Also noticed the frame is not a rectangular piece os steel. It's only 3 sided like a "C". Didn't they have rust through frame issues some time back?

Plus DRUM brakes? Sorry thats 1980's technology. The sales guy went on and on like he was selling Mercedes. It's an unremarkable product with a silly high sticker price.

You’re a GM guy so you do have skin in this fight. GM’s quality isn’t even in the same solar system as Toyota. They can’t even make an ignition switch correctly without murdering people. Give me a break. The rusty Toyota frames were because the frame supplier did not coat the frames to Toyota’s specifications. Toyota even paid owners well over fair market value for the trucks with the rusty frames that couldn’t be repaired. Keep that great GM feeling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk109ycowBY

I could post vid after vid about GM’s stuff. They made me and millions of Americans proud Toyota owners.

I don't know about the new Toyota's,but I bought a double cab Tacoma the first year they came out in 2001. Tomorrow it will take me where I want to go.I am keeping it until the wheels fall off.

Changed the timing belt and water pump every 75000 miles. Oil every 3000 miles, and new set of rotors at 200,000 miles. Brake pads and battery a couple of times and a fuel filter. Air filter is changed when needed. Transmission fluid drained and filled at each 60,000 mile interval.

I dread the day I have to give it up for a new one so I am shooting for 25 years. Next year will be 20 so I might make it.

quote:

Originally posted by Brett B:

quote:

Originally posted by FN in MT:
I don't get the blind fanaticism over Taco's and Tundras.

The past 2-3 weeks I have gone with a buddy to look at new pickups. We visited the local Chevrolet/Toyota stealer and looked at both brands.

All sorts of room to discount on the Chevy Colorados and full sized trucks. Jim is interested in a mid sized so we looked at the Colorados and Tacomas. The Colorado drove fine, 3.6 liter V6. Sales guy immediately dropped it from $42K to $37K with 1.9% finance , etc.

Looked at Tacomas and not only sticker, but a few Dealer add ons as well. Would not budge from the sticker price. I thought the interior was dated, the interior was noisy with a "crackly" cheap sounding radio. As well as DRUM BRAKES! I had no idea drum brakes were on much of anything anymore.

Don't get the love on these things...NOT for the high asking price.

And why would you say it's "blind"? Some of us have many years of experience with these trucks and heavily researched the differences before making our purchase decision. Nothing blind about it.

It's known they won't have every new tech gizmo in them, but Toyota trucks are proven to have superior long term reliability. Some people are willing to pay for that, so the dealer doesn't have to move as much on the price. The big 3 rely on much more sales volume so they are constantly using incentives to push inventory out the door. I was able to get my 2014 Tundra new for $6k off MSRP so there are decent deals out there if you shop around.

The Tundra also happened to be the most made in the USA vehicle of any car sold in America at that time. The Colorado you looked at was likely made in Mexico like several other GM trucks. "Foreign" companies like Toyota and Honda (and many others) have invested billions in new USA factories and facilities over the years, employing thousands of American non-union employees, and selling several hundred thousand of made in the USA vehicles each year. GM continues to shutter US plants while they invest more in foreign countries. But their trucks are a little cheaper!

Just 3 years back, Toyota sold over 10 million units in the US, exceeding all other brands. And yes they've made a huge commitment to American jobs.

quote:

Originally posted by FN in MT:

quote:

Originally posted by SIG228:

quote:

Originally posted by FN in MT:
I don't get the blind fanaticism over Taco's and Tundras.

The past 2-3 weeks I have gone with a buddy to look at new pickups. We visited the local Chevrolet/Toyota stealer and looked at both brands.

All sorts of room to discount on the Chevy Colorados and full sized trucks. Jim is interested in a mid sized so we looked at the Colorados and Tacomas. The Colorado drove fine, 3.6 liter V6. Sales guy immediately dropped it from $42K to $37K with 1.9% finance , etc.

Looked at Tacomas and not only sticker, but a few Dealer add ons as well. Would not budge from the sticker price. I thought the interior was dated, the interior was noisy with a "crackly" cheap sounding radio. As well as DRUM BRAKES! I had no idea drum brakes were on much of anything anymore.

Don't get the love on these things...NOT for the high asking price.

Get back to us in five years when your buddy goes to sell his Colorado.

I have no skin in this fight, simply making an observation as I looked at trucks recently.

Pay MORE for the Tacoma vs the Chevrolet. Then in 5 years get a little more if you sell it. Are you getting the DIFFERENCE between what you paid for the two? I doubt it.

I'm sorry I can't help but realize the Taco's are overpriced for the level of technology or equipment compared to a similarly priced Chevy.

The interior is weird, like you're sitting in a car, not upright like in a truck. The interior is cheap looking, Crap sound system. I don't care if I get ALL my purchase price back in 5 yrs..It's a crappy interior. I have to sit there.

Also noticed the frame is not a rectangular piece os steel. It's only 3 sided like a "C". Didn't they have rust through frame issues some time back?

Plus DRUM brakes? Sorry thats 1980's technology. The sales guy went on and on like he was selling Mercedes. It's an unremarkable product with a silly high sticker price.

There were 3 years of Tacoma trucks having frame rust problems. Toyota recalled and bought those trucks back @ 1.5 times their book value. A lot of the Customers opted for a new Tacoma.

Just buy a brand new TRD PRO for $55k, finance it or the difference for 1.9%, make it yours and keep it a long time........

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
...$55k...

Jesus, Mary and Joseph

Soup cans. Lawn furniture. Damn

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
...$55k...

Jesus, Mary and Joseph

Soup cans. Lawn furniture. Damn

My first house (in central KY circa 1993) was $43,700.
Three bedroom ranch.
With an acre of yard.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
...$55k...

Jesus, Mary and Joseph

Soup cans. Lawn furniture. Damn

That's what a new TRD Pro goes for and what the OP is interested in. Buy a new one, everything is under warranty, all of your wear items are new, so for the first 40k miles, all you have to worry about are oil changes/tire rotations and no unexpected surprises. You get the vehicle exactly how you want it, and know it's entire history. If you keep it 10-12 years, it works out pretty well. Compared to $30k for a 5 year old one, and 83k miles.....you're talking about $20k difference and 5 more years of service. The other issue is once a vehicle gets above 120k miles, you're looking at big ticket repairs with no notice.....a/c system, transmission, etc. etc..

I bought my 2008 E.B. Expedition new, $36k, kept it for 10.5 years, sold it for $8500 with 103k miles, put $6000 into it over it's 10.5 year entire life on repairs/wear items (tires, brakes). $2800 of that in the last 3 months I owned it on a repair while waiting for the new one to come. Bought a new 2018 limited for $60k (sticker $66k) and will do the same. It has every option I want and the color combination I want and as long as I maintain it, have no issues keeping it 10-12 years. New vehicles have gotten really expensive with all of the EPA added mandates and stuff they need to meet gas mileage standards.

Listen, for that kind of money, it had better come with a roof-mounted FN MAG58

Just plain obscene

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Listen, for that kind of money, it had better come with a roof-mounted FN MAG58

Just plain obscene

WELL, I wouldn't be buying one either......LOL

Used prices for Toyotas can be crazy. For about $5k more than a used one, I bought a new Tacoma 13 years ago. Moreover, used ones had 60k+ miles on them. I still have yet to have a mechanical or rust problem with mine and it has 193k miles on it. I'd look for a new SR5, save the $$$$ and work on it as you want. I'd also be leary that a Pro has been driven hard as it is Toyota's top off road model. That being said, you'll still be driving a Toyota when a Big 3 is rusting in a field somewhere.

...assuming that you keep it that long, which Black most assuredly will not.

Yeah, I get it- guys have a thing for trucks, cars, motorcycles and boats.

Forgive me for stating the following so bluntly, but if you pay 40, 50,000 or more for a truck, you're getting screwed in the ass. Stop and think about how much money that is. But, people will pay these obscene Goddamned prices. Hell, they'll get on waiting lists to get screwed by the manufacturers, and be happy about it. So, the auto makers just keep raising these prices (has almost nothing to do with normal inflation).

In my life, I've had exactly one new vehicle, and that was more than thirty years ago. I drove it to destruction, never considered buying anything else while that machine was still in service.
The Toyota pickup I drive now, I bought from a dealer in 2007 when it had about 250 miles on it, so, not a new truck, but close. And, you know what? I've been able to go every single place I've wanted to go, never been hot or cold or uncomfortable in it.
No one tries to steal it because it wouldn't be worth their time. No one has broken into it because they figure there's nothing in it. My auto insurance is very inexpensive. Fuel costs are laughable.

All that money going for a vulnerable toy that people will take from you in a heartbeat, or that some asshole in another car will help you total? Yeah, instead, I invested that money in desireable collectibles which will be here long after your overpriced sled is part of the counter top at some Burger King. These items of mine accrue in value each year, unlike your overpriced tin can.

Sorry, folks, but it's the truth. Some of you guys are just lining up to get screwed and you're happy about it.

I have to agree to the extent that the vast majority of new and newer used vehicles on the road are financed. Which is a pet peeve or mine. To finance a $50k rig is nuts. Even a o% interest. If you have to make payments you cannot afford it. It you would like me to repeat that, I can.
Now, if you have the $ and want to spend it on a new rig, by all means go for it.

Para - have followed with some interest your thoughts on this prospective purchase. Interesting how your thoughts seem to align with mine. Was in a local Jeep dealership some months back & while waiting I visited their show room. They had managed to cram five vehicles into it and one of them was a full-sized Jeep station wagon - I think maybe it was a Grand Cherokee - maxed out with all the luxuries. One look at the window sticker almost gave me a heart attack -> $75,000!! I remember thinking: What kind of idiot pays $75000 for something and then puts it on the road, almost defying others to run over it and total it? Not me, Brother - not me. I couldn't see the wisdom then and I still can't. I'll probably never have a new car, and that's just allright. I'll also never lie awake at night wondering how I'm gonna make that next payment - OR how I'm gonna gonna get another decent ride with the money that the insurance company has chosen to give me for my totaled $75000 mistake.

quote:

Originally posted by FN in MT:

Are you getting the DIFFERENCE between what you paid for the two? I doubt it.

Of course you do, this one is easy to figure out.

2014 Tundra Limited Crewmax (the truck I purchased new)
MSRP: $46,000
My purchase price: $40,000
KBB trade in value now with 70k miles: $28,825

2014 Ford XLT Supercrew (one of the equivalent trucks I compared with)
MSRP: $40,000
Dealer quoted price: $34,000
KBB trade in value now with 70k miles: $17,934

So the Ford would have cost me $6k less to purchase new, and it would be worth $10,891 less for resale right now.

The Ford has had 5 recalls (brake lights, seat belts, brake master cylinder/booster, electric power steering, seats/airbag), the Tundra has had 1 (airbag). Not to mention the other half dozen common 2014 F150 issues that we now know about.

So you tell me, if you had a crystal ball at the time, you wouldn’t pick the Tundra?

No way would I spend that amount of money on a used P/U. For a few dollars more you could buy a new truck. I know it might not have the options the Tundra has but for what its worth it will have a new vehicle warranty.

No. Brand new Silverado v8 Custom 4x4 trucks are mid $30s around here, so in that price range, its hard to justify that many years and miles. I know you said you are done with GM. I suspect new F150s can be had for comparable prices, but what you can afford is what you can afford. Full size truck pricing gets insane, especially as you start moving up in trim levels. Seems every step adds a few thousand more.

Under $30k I would expect 15-30k miles for F150s and Silverado lower trims. Toyota Crews seem to go around $30k at 30k miles here but I am not familiar with their trim levels.